NEW skool trading or OLD skool trading

mettall posted:
    Most of the experienced traders don't have a huge account. They have 3-4-5 or even more accounts with average amounts.
So if you blow up one of them - the game is not over!

A REAL experienced trader will see every account as 1 account. That means that he will never let an account blow up. Blowing up an account and saying to yourself: no problem I have enough other accounts, has nothing to do with trading but is a pure casino spirit ( running around in a casino and playing on several roulette tables at the same time (which gambling addicts do) and if you loose your money on one table no problem maybe I can make money on the other table).

Let me tell you the difference between an experienced trader and new trader:
For the experienced trader it is all about concentrating to loose as less money as possible....for the new trader it is all about making as much money as possible.
That is a VERY BIG difference and always proofs that the experienced trader will survive a lot longer then the new trader....

Friendly regards...iGoR

Yes, you say the truth - forex is not gambling and we should care about every account we have.

i am sure you have watched the movie 'Maverik' with Mel Gibson. At the end there is a scene where the Commodore wants to rob Maverik. However, he gets the money from one of his boot and walk away. After that Maverik digs in the other boot and gets the half of amount he won.
Or as we say in my country: Never carry all eggs in one basket.

Thats what i am trying to say is that is much safer to play with more than one account. So if you have a bad week with one account and you make -10% you may have +10% with the other 3 accounts so at the end you have positive balance.

Its better when you do not depend on one thing. For example if the world bank used world reserve currency witch combines usd, eur, chf, jpy, gbp, petrol, diesel, gas and other currencies and stocks - if one of them goes wrong the things are still good and maybe it would not be financial crisis at all.

Sometimes is good when different people have different opinion - the world is more flourishing...
All the best!

metall, you do have a good point, but i don't think you need to go that far.

you can spread your risk by trading conservatively or trading different instruments.

i think it's very difficult to maintain several account, especially for beginners.

There are simple rules for trading multiple accounts... Money management does not ends when you log out from your account...

iGoR, Why are you playing automatic? I see its a winning robot, but Don't Let a Machine Do the Human Job! :)

mettall posted:
    There are simple rules for trading multiple accounts... Money management does not ends when you log out from your account...

well said!

Mettall and others,

I talk a lot to other traders because of my business,
One week ago I talked to a very respected person in the programming world about trading systems.
This person is a woman ( and let me asure you it is not donnaforex because she does not know zilts about trading and programming--even more she is over-hyped and does not not the difference between trading and playing counterstrike).

I had a very nice chat on THE SAME LEVEL but at some point we came to a system where she was convinced of a very profitable system. I was not because it was clear that some drawdowns would blow up your account.
She said in the very same words: Igor, with this system it is very clear that when you invest 1K$ you can loos it all. BUT whe you take 4-5 attempts you can suddenly take off and turn 1K into 10k.
I said..you are right but would you do the same with 100K$. She said absolutly not. But that is how NEW SKOOL traders operate now.
I said ??....
She said: well it is all about chances and probailitys. you can blows up severall accounts but once you take off and have some luck you can mulitiply your account by the hundreds.

I did't know what to say anymore. I realized that this is again the difference between OLD school and NEW school. and I will need to live by the idea and logics.
But whatever the logics are of the NEW school I know that they never going to work on the long term.
Up till now I saw backtests over very long term on a NEW school system and results over short period of times but I never saw REAL results over very long period on a NEW school system.


Not that I need to see them. Because I am quite sure if I would walk in the office of Warren Buffet ( the biggest trader ever and still is) and ask him if he could DOUBLE up my money in a couple of months time he would trow me out of his office).
I told this story already many times to forex traders but they put their fingers in their ears and start to yell YEAH YEAH YEAH--they don't want to listen)....

Making good results and proving you are a good traders is at least over a 3 year period. Wa

i don't think it's necessarily the mindset of old-school and new-school traders. i think it more depends on the trader itself. i'm sure you can find traders with different risk approaches from both ends if look hard enough.

3 years is a bit too much i believe in order to prove yourself - i think one year of consistent returns should be enough, nevertheless, the longer the track record, the better.

by the way, you've mentioned donna forex - i don't think she is a trader at all, she only uses readily available ea's and just tries different settings and sells them.

Very nice read indeed.

So FXiGoR, you're a professional fund manager? I would love to hear some of your experience on that matter.. are you actively trading? Creating automated systems? Or just look for clients?

FXiGoR

Buffet's time has come and gone. He's ready to retire, gave Bill Gates all all his money a year or three ago already. His system was the best in a different time. Before the wide spread use of computers in trading. The new Buffet is already alive and trading, just 30 years behind. That will change with time.

I know of at least one trader that's doing more than 100% per annum for the last 5 years fully auto, last time I spoke to him had more than $150 mil, and climbing. Buffet's average was less than 30%.

Elkart posted:
    FXiGoR

Buffet's time has come and gone. He's ready to retire, gave Bill Gates all all his money a year or three ago already. His system was the best in a different time. Before the wide spread use of computers in trading. The new Buffet is already alive and trading, just 30 years behind. That will change with time.

I know of at least one trader that's doing more than 100% per annum for the last 5 years fully auto, last time I spoke to him had more than $150 mil, and climbing. Buffet's average was less than 30%.

As everything in life, it has an end. I think buffet is still a very rich man nevertheless.

And who's the super trader might be? With such figures, he must be already moving the market with his positions. I've once read that to move the EURUSD one pip, you need a position size of about 100mio.

I don't think he would be to pleased if I start mentioning him around forums. Then he could be found and bothered.

The man is retired, spends his days on his farm watching the cows, goats and ducks. He certainly doesn't consider himself a super trader or has any further interest in money or reputation.

Buffet is rich yes, but there will be wealthier traders relatively soon I think. Within a decade I think a small herd of a new breed of automated trader will shuffle their way up the money rankings. Wouldn't be surprised if they dominate the forbes list for a decade or two.

There was a BBC interview not so long ago with a hedge fund guy. He trades automated and turned his USD position 15 times for the month, made like 40%. On a few billion none the less.

I'm not gonna look him up and don't even asked for any private details, just interested to hear more about him 😄. Not every day you hear about such success.

I think there are already some automated millionaire traders out there, it's just that you don't hear about them - I don't think this mentality will ever change; there are very few who brag of their success.

I do agree with you and times have changed - more traders start to unleash the power of automated trading, however it's still a slim chance of finding the holy grail, so I don't think many will get there; after all it is a zero sum game.

I know a few actually. Generally they don't do forums. Always get some 10 pip pilot on your six.

As I pointed out somewhere else, statistically it's inevitable we'll see a few super star traders emerge.

And it's not a zero sum game. I can be long USD and sell it to you, then I'm out. You can make money from the long and the next guy.

I see your point.

Since you know some successful traders, have you picked up their trading style? I mean you've must have learned something from them.

i'd known a guy who was working for a local broker company. he told me that only 2% of all real accounts are actually winning.
And most of the rest accounts are getting margin call.

So if you want to be profitable in the forex world - become a broker 😝 😑

biz0101 posted:
you can spread your risk by trading conservatively or trading different instruments.

thanks, that is good but not enough. i have to add a clause for closing on red. i hope it will not eat much of my profit.

Pip,

No not really. I don't ask. I don't want to know. Everyone must find their own path. I'm to far gone down my path to ask others. At best they'll just re-iterate what I know already. There's really only a few basic principles at work anyway.

Trading styles are just semantics really....

Mettal, few brokers there will disagree with you. Had some spectacular failures recently. Refco comes to mind.

Oanda boasts 50% retention....

Not going to ask another man to take his wife for a spin. I think a trader has to be reaaaaaaal close to his system to make it work. Kind of a personal intimate thing, so I don't ask.

A system is like a wife. Got to learn to trust her, how to make her happy, when to keep your distance. When she's grumpy, but agreeable and when things are just right.

And if it's for sale, you're dealing with a pimp. Never trust a pimp. And never trust the girl he offers. You'll get what you want short term, but fall asleep with that girl in your bed you'll wake up minus the wallet....