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pipinvestment1

Member Since Aug 14, 2010  219 posts Will Schaarrand (pipinvestment1) Aug 30 2010 at 08:29
I wanted to share this information with the new traders, because they often forget about the long term picture and focus on huge gains at day one. You do not need 100 pip swing trades or huge gains everyday.

All you need is 20 pips consistently. So, yes some days you may make more and some days you may make less, but it order for you to become a full time trader, you must make 100 pips a week for years to come... This means that you do not need to risk your accounts, by trading news, or market opens. All you need is 1 good trade a day. Thats it..
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This is not some far fetched dream, nor is this impossible. We are not getting greedy, and we are not shooting for the stars.
We have realistic goals and we can achieve them. Yes you will need a solid strategy and discipline to follow that strategy day in and day out. But it is all very possible.
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This concept of 20 pips a day has been written on my BIG white Board so many times that ''How can I forget this simple goal.''

However, when I sit down to trade. I forget about that my goal is to ONLY make a few good trades and earn my 20 pips. And this is what has been the leading factor of my failure for years. Honestly, this is the main reason. We all feel that, We can achieve more, so lets put on another trade.... well in the end,,, you should have been happy with that 20 pip gain. Because after trading for a few years, that 20 pips a day goal, would have turned into a nice portfolio. But greed often gets in the way, and we contnue to lose our money.
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So new and old traders... Print this out. Hang it on the wall. and remember, ''You don't need all the opportunities, you only need a few that can earn you 20 pips a day'''
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This information has been taken from my website, as I thought we should all SEE THE BIG PICTURE
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This is for investors as well... Stop trying to find traders that can double your account every month. Find a trader that is consistently making pips... In the long run, you will have grown your account much further than trying to find the best trader on the block
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Compounding Lot Sizes When Your Equity grows.

This technique can grow your account astronomically in a short amount of time. The only way to increase the outcome of success with compounding is to increase your accuracy, risk management and discipline skills. We all must follow the rules that come along with making money quickly. The first objective to handle Draw-down and have a strict guideline of exiting bad trades at a loss. Especially, considering that “Unmanaged” trades are the losing trades that make all(except a few) traders fail. Often enough, it is one specific trade that a trader will not exit from that consequently ends their trading career prematurely. . If the trader does not close their losing trade quickly, their account equity can be severally damaged. You do not want an equity curve that looks like a martingale. An inevitable crash in the end. We have to secure profits and limit losses quickly.

Account Balance – Lot per Trade – Pip Value in USD

$1000 = .1lot per trade = $1 = 1 pip after spread
$2500 = .25lot per trade = $2.50 = 1 pip after spread
$5000 = .5lot per trade = $5 = 1 pip after spread
$10000 = 1.0lot per trade = $10 = 1 pip after spread
$20000 = 2.0lot per trade = $20 = 1 pip after spread
$50000 = 5.0 lot per trade = $50 = 1 pip after spread
$100000 = 10.0lot per trade = $100 = 1 pip after spread
$500000 = 50.0lot per trade = $500 = 1 pip after spread -MT4 Limit
$1000000 = 100.0lot per trade = $1000 = 1 pip after spread
$1000: Start Compounding
Month 1
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1100
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1200
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1300
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1400
Month 2
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1500
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1600
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1700
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1800
Month 3
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1900
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $2000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $2100
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $2200
Month 4
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $2300
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $2400
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $2500
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $2750
Month 5
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $3000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $3250
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $3500
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $200 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $3750
Month 6
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $4000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $4250
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $4500
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $4750
Month 7
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $250 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $5000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $5500
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $6000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $6500
Month 8
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $7000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $7500
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $8000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $8500
Month 9
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $9000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $9500
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $500 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $10000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance 11000
Month 10
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $12000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $13000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $14000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $15000
Month 11
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $16000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $17000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $18000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $19000
Month 12
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $1000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $20000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $22000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $240000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $26000

We will have an opportunity to achieve $2,000 as a weekly income after the first year

Only 20 pips a day

Year 2- Month 2
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $28000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $30000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $32000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $34000
Year 2- Month 3
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $36000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $38000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $40000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $42000
Year 2- Month 4
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $44000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $46000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $48000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $2000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $50000
Year 2- Month 5
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $55000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $60000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $65000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $70000
Year 2- Month 6
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $75000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $80000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $85000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $90000
Year 2- Month 7
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $95000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $5000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $100000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $110000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $120000
Year 2- Month 8
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $130000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $140000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $150000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $160000
Year 2- Month 9
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $170000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $180000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $190000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $200000
Year 2- Month 10
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $210000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $220000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $230000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $240000
Year 2- Month 11
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $250000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $260000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $270000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $280000
Year 2- Month 12
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $290000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $300000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $310000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $320000
Year 3- Month 1
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $330000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $340000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $350000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $360000
Year 3- Month2
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $370000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $380000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $390000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $400000
Year 3- Month3
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $410000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $420000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $430000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $440000
Year 3- Month4
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $450000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $460000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $470000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $480000
Year 3- Month5
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $490000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $10000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $500000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $550000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $600000
Year 3- Month6
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $650000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $700000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $750000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $800000
Year 3- Month7
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $850000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $900000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $950000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $50000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1000000

Congratulations. You have been promoted to C.E.O and have been awarded an Elite Trader Certificate, granting you access to new liquidity pools and 100 Lot positions.

How does $100,000 as weekly income sound?

Advancements
New Liquidity Providers
Smaller Commission percentage per trade
Institutional Platforms
Possible Job Opportunities

Year 3- Mont8
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $100000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1100000
20 pips X 5 days a week2 = $100000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1200000
20 pips X 5 days a wee3 = $100000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1300000
20 pips X 5 days a wee4 = $100000 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1400000

1 pip at a time
rubionfunds

Member Since Apr 13, 2010  68 posts victor (rubionfunds) Aug 30 2010 at 09:35
well said man.. well said ! this for sure is a sermon that everyone needs to listen to....not only the new traders.

winning isnt victory and losing isnt defeat.
rubionfunds

Member Since Apr 13, 2010  68 posts victor (rubionfunds) Aug 30 2010 at 11:03
i will like to add again.

your post just boils down to compounding interest. a trader can actually turn $1000 to $1 million in the next 3 years if he makes 21.2% compounded monthly.

the 20 pip a day target is cool but it might make the trader indulge in 'over-trading' thinking he must place a trade EVERYDAY and MAKE THAT 20 PIPS ! and when he makes a loss..he TRIES TOO HARD and places more trades or increases lots to get that daily target. this is not cool ! so i suggest that a MONTHLY target is set. an achievable target like 21% so the trader knows he needs to make 5% this week... he might make more but the 5% stays in the account. this involves discipline and until there is discipline consistency will NEVER come !

winning isnt victory and losing isnt defeat.
Voffi

Member Since May 30, 2010  64 posts Voffi (Voffi) Aug 30 2010 at 11:21 (edited Aug 30 2010 at 11:23 )
Hahaha when I saw the thread name I was like 'ohh not one of these again....'

I think most people have too high expectations, are too impatient and are not willing to practice and master the 'boring' side of what it takes to become a professional. And I'm referring to money management, psychology, risk management, amongst many other things that are needed as well.

Also many people don't have their priorities 'right' when trading, they always think of how much they could earn in a trade when they should be focusing on protecting the capital and risk management.


Enough of my ranting..


Best regards, Stefán.

A person is only limited by the thoughts he chooses.
paulng

Member Since Aug 13, 2010  43 posts Paul Ng (paulng) Aug 30 2010 at 20:12
good post

"The first rule of forecasting should be that the unforeseen keeps making the future unforeseeable." - David McCasland (January 5,2012, Our Daily Bread)
govindkp

Member Since May 18, 2010  47 posts govindkp (govindkp) Aug 30 2010 at 22:19
Will , no offense.. but that essay was not worthy when matched up with Victors summary :)
Most people get caught up in these figures game because the only thing they see is the last number ..i.e, a 1000K account..
They forget that its made in years and they try to get to that goal in months ...one thing is for sure, a real gambler and a real trader is alike....coz both take calculated risk. People say forex is not gambling...but it really is. Thats why its called speculative market...even if you are an EW or fibb expert , you are still speculating :)

If i had a 1000K i wud invent a time machine and give it for lease, so that you dont have to follow those lagging indicators anymore :D

sharpfx

Member Since Aug 11, 2010  3 posts Gary Sharp (sharpfx) Sep 04 2010 at 00:32
Ah yes..but...gambling is gambling because you have no control over losses. Bet $1,000 and if you lose you have lost the entire $1,000. Speculate with $1,000 and if you lose your loss is limited to your stop-loss or the point at which you exit the market. Just like owning a home, if the price should begin to fall you would sell-out, right? Is that gambling?

By the way, if you start with $1 and double your money every day, how many days will it take to reach $1-million? It will take 20 days! I think the point being made is that the FX market, and the leverage available, presents a real opportunity for the average person to become wealthy PROVIDED sensible money management forms part of the traders' tool kit.

Another point of interest before I stop ranting on is the 50/50 nature of FX trading. Like flipping a coin, over time the results will be 50% heads, and 50% tails. Try it! So, roughly 50% of trades will win, and 50% of trades will lose. So, 2 to 1 odds or better is essential to long term gain. That is, a 100pip stop must be matched by a 200pip or larger take profit. Over 100 trades you lose 5,000pips, and gain 10,000 pips, for a 5,000pip net gain!

pipinvestment1

Member Since Aug 14, 2010  219 posts Will Schaarrand (pipinvestment1) Sep 08 2010 at 09:32
Having goals in life adds motivation and creates a pathway to success. Without laying out some sort of structure, you cannot justify if you are on track or not. This is only an agenda and forecast of what we should be focusing on.

Just like a business, planning and building a solid foundation is the most important aspect. Most businesses fail within the first few years because of poor management and lack of capital. Now lack of capital is normally caused from the first problem- Poor management. In order to have enough capital for long term expenditures and potential growth, we need to plan for the future.

In order to plan for the future, we need goals to keep us in check. These goals are the little stepping stones that get us somewhere in life. Not the idea nor the vision.

Our priority is to make $. In order to make money, we have to conserve our capital, allowing us to make that next trade. Calculated risk = Trading, innovation, and is a necessary procedure to accomplish something on YOUR OWN. With out taking on some risk, you will have be an employee for most of your life.

Yes, we are speculators. Thats the name of the game. Some speculators are just more accurate than others.

Ultimately, they can stay solvent long enough to make another trade = Risk management.

  


 

1 pip at a time
pipinvestment1

Member Since Aug 14, 2010  219 posts Will Schaarrand (pipinvestment1) Sep 08 2010 at 09:37

Voffi posted:
    

 they always think of how much they could earn in a trade when they should be focusing on protecting the capital and risk management.

Best regards, Stefán.


Exactly. For every trade you put on, you need to determine HOW much you are willing to lose.. If the loss is greater than the return and your accuracy is under 90%, you should not take the trade and wait for a better opportunity.

Just because we may have a goal of 20 a day, does not mean we have to risk 100 pips to gain the 20 pips. That is foolish, but unfortunately, I see traders exercising this concept. HOPE and HOLD> Thats not planning, thats ending your career prematurely.. OK back to trading...

1 pip at a time
Siitari

Member Since Jul 21, 2010  111 posts Siitari Sep 08 2010 at 11:19
I just have to say I feel that when trading with these kind of objectives it's foolish to trade with fixed lot size. Easier for sure but trading with percents makes it a lot smoother.

As I see it you strive for 10% gain every week(a huge gain btw).


e.g.

Starting balance 1000$
20 pips X 5 days a week1 = $100 (100pips x Pip Value)= Balance $1100

That's a 10% gain. If you traded with 10% gain each week(lot size likely varies every trade) you have a very different profit curve:


10% for week1 = Balance $1100
10% for week2 = Balance $1210
10% for week3 = Balance $1331
10% for week4 = Balance $1464


In first month we're 64 dollars ahead. And still you trade with 20 pips gained a day... that doesn't change. Only traded lot-size changes.

To simplify next moths(to make it even more simpler every month calculated here is 4 weeks):

Month 2 end balance = $2144 - $344 more profit
Month 3 end balance = $3138 - $938 more profit
Month 4 end balance = $4595 - $1845 more profit
Month 5 end balance = $6727
Month 6 end balance = $9850
Month 7 end balance = $14,421
Month 8 end balance = $21,114
Month 9 end balance = $30,913
Month 10 end balance = $45,259
Month 11 end balance = $66,264

1 year profit(calculated with 48 weeks only) = $97,017 - a whopping $71,017 difference to a fixed lot-size($26,000) in profits!!!!
Only difference being a percentage of balance at stake instead of trading fixed lot-size.

In three years(48 week year as calculated before) and eight months profit gained this way would be astonishing $198,730,122!! Difference of $197,330,122!!


Too incredible? Yes, definitely.

I mean 10% gain per week is insane be it fixed-lot or percentage. What if we calculated this so that we have the same profit after three years and eight months as the presented in first post but with a varied lot-size? Our weekly gain would need to be significantly smaller and far more realistic.

Our goal = $1,400,000 or so in 3 years and 8 months. Insert simple math here :) I'll just cut to the result to save us some pain.

We would only need about 5.83% gain per week to achieve this(actually less since I calculated with only a 48 week year(there are times you really don't want to trade so that's the reason for 48 weeks only)).Far more realistic objective than 10% per week thought it's still a big gain.


Just my thoughts. Feel free to rant about it.

P.S. And nothing really guarantees that one can actually make any profit in the first place. These were just calculations that IMHO prove a point about money management but this doesn't make anyone a successful trader.

Less effort, better results.
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HIGH RISK WARNING: Foreign exchange trading carries a high level of risk that may not be suitable for all investors. Leverage creates additional risk and loss exposure. Before you decide to trade foreign exchange, carefully consider your investment objectives, experience level, and risk tolerance. You could lose some or all of your initial investment; do not invest money that you cannot afford to lose. Educate yourself on the risks associated with foreign exchange trading, and seek advice from an independent financial or tax advisor if you have any questions. Any data and information is provided 'as is' solely for informational purposes, and is not intended for trading purposes or advice.