RWFXM - KINGDOM (By forex_trader_5776)
The user has deleted this system.
RWFXM - KINGDOM Discussion
forex_trader_5776
Member Since Jan 17, 2010
140 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 17:27
BTW
I understand that vultures are having fun now when my account is down - please enjoy while it lasts.
R
I understand that vultures are having fun now when my account is down - please enjoy while it lasts.
R
Member Since Feb 16, 2010
1332 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 17:48
It's very easy to lose other's money and say: don't worry, it will recover soon. Trading w/o SL is irresponsible the least. I hope you don't delete this system so that people should be aware of what could happen.
"In trading, winning is frequently a question of luck, but losing is always a matter of skill."
forex_trader_16563
Member Since Aug 10, 2010
55 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 17:55
zebra posted:
I love the HOPE and HOLD strategy.
This traders attitude is quite Up beat for having a margin call. He acts like it is No big deal to him and he is too stubborn to admit that is his trading style is unprofessional. And states that his other accounts are in Great Shape.(please upload your FXCM statement to another Publisher to display your Idea of Great shape.)
After reading all these comments, he is OK with 50% equity because he has so much faith in the Annual market cycle that he claims to exist. If he is really enjoying trading and is an active trader, he would have seen the YEN Strength and USD strength. READ SOME NEWS. ....and for someone to just sit back and do nothing about it really shows that this trader will never last in this unpredictable market.
And, comments above are still showing Hope and possible recovery from this episode.'' Patience'' and ''Steve'' both are 100% correct. Why use your Margin call for your Max Stoploss?
You could have hedged your bad trades back at a 10% equity drawdown until the dust settled and until your patterns became much clearer and more precise.
Well, if you have that much confidence in yourself and your strategy..... this is very good. and Best luck to your recovery...
I got my first Vouch.. Thank you Forum members. I am surely appreciated and I will do my best.
I understand Robert. Yes you will be vulnerable to criticism from here on out, but do not take it the wrong way, just accept it and learn from your mistakes..
Maybe have a peek on my profile and system as I am a big believer in Trading Philosophy. And what works for some, will not work for others. But I do agree that you do need to adjust your positions or start using 10:1 leverage for longer term stability. Investors do not need 10% 30% 100% a month to be satisfied. Investors are happy with long term stable growth that can outperform CD, Bonds, Mutual Funds, and other longer term investments.
If you have Goals, and burning desire, you may want to have separate accounts for each Goal. Oanda offers less leverage and from your website, it looks that Oanda is already on your ToDo List.
Member Since Feb 16, 2010
1332 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 18:15
(edited Aug 11, 2010 at 18:15)
Investors don't care about philosophy, believing or any state of trader's mind. Investors care about their money and results. Robert, your problem is you don't want to accept what happened today as a failure, you want to consider it rather an exception but it's an example what can happen to any of the accounts you manage.
"In trading, winning is frequently a question of luck, but losing is always a matter of skill."
forex_trader_5776
Member Since Jan 17, 2010
140 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 19:41
Fomacc
My money trades along investor's money, I win when they win and I loose when they loose.
I do not plan to delete the system, this system will recover nicely and in few months this DD will be hardly visible on a the curve.
R
My money trades along investor's money, I win when they win and I loose when they loose.
I do not plan to delete the system, this system will recover nicely and in few months this DD will be hardly visible on a the curve.
R
forex_trader_5776
Member Since Jan 17, 2010
140 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 20:04
Zebra
Here is another vouch for you
I can take criticism as long as it is sound and based on facts. I understand everyone has different philosophy in trading and I have mine. At the moment I am very happy with my philosophy as it seems to outperform many others and I plan to stick to it no matter what anyone says. Obviously I am going to look at what happened and make corrections next time but this time I was simply too greedy, I though I had that under control but I guess I was wrong.
I understand that investors don't need more then 10% monthly but like I said I trade my money along theirs and I'd like to see them grow at a faster pace then 10% (give me 10 mils and I'll give you 10% month after month with no risk). As you know leverage is not what broker gives but what you actually use, my leverage when entering positions is normally about 1:5.
Just to make it clear I over leveraged here folks I admit it, I know it was purely my fault. I'll take the lesson and keep going.
R
Here is another vouch for you
I can take criticism as long as it is sound and based on facts. I understand everyone has different philosophy in trading and I have mine. At the moment I am very happy with my philosophy as it seems to outperform many others and I plan to stick to it no matter what anyone says. Obviously I am going to look at what happened and make corrections next time but this time I was simply too greedy, I though I had that under control but I guess I was wrong.
I understand that investors don't need more then 10% monthly but like I said I trade my money along theirs and I'd like to see them grow at a faster pace then 10% (give me 10 mils and I'll give you 10% month after month with no risk). As you know leverage is not what broker gives but what you actually use, my leverage when entering positions is normally about 1:5.
Just to make it clear I over leveraged here folks I admit it, I know it was purely my fault. I'll take the lesson and keep going.
R
forex_trader_1819
Member Since Oct 18, 2009
230 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 22:05
robw135 posted:
Patience
I hear you, I'm working on all those things as well but its a process.
I only got margin call on this account which had a more aggressive approach then my FXCM account which is in great shape.
I'm happy with the way I pick trades and I'll probably just reduce the risk on this account as well going into the future.
R
Robert
I don't mean to come across as a vulture but it is not normal to get a margin call/blow an account every couple of months. It doesn't have to be a process. Just reduce your risk. You don't have to be the best trader in the world. It's all about capital preservation. I'm getting real tired of watching account after account go BOOM and then BUST on this forum or they go BOOM and then the operator disappears like Pistis of Kapend Investments (especiallly after making smart arse comments about other people's trading), he couldn't even last a month. LJB Financial seems to have disappeared as well. You don't want the market to keep teaching you lessons because they become expensive. Onward and upward.
forex_trader_5776
Member Since Jan 17, 2010
140 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 22:35
(edited Aug 11, 2010 at 22:35)
Maybe there is some confusion here.
The account is not blown, some positions were liquidated to preserve margin, that is all. I expect it to recover soon.
You're right it is all about capital preservation.
Sad about Pistis I had few conversations with him, but maybe he made his money already and bought himself an island far away from us all.
I will keep trading, regardless of what happens. Overall I have a positive year and I intend to keep it that way.
I only trade OPM because I have been asked to. If no one ever asks me again that will be fine with me as well, I will still trade my funds and still post it here.
Will I have DDs in the future - you bet, will I blow any account - I hope not but its possible, that's why I have all the disclosures on my site.
I have been trading fx for 4 years, 3+ of those years were overall negative with the wrong approach.
The last 8-9 months have been very rewarding to me compared to how I did before, therefore I am truly just getting started and there are still are some kinks in the strategy and psychology to be improved upon and especially in relation to the fact that it is managed account.
I remain convinced that this will be a very rewarding journey for me and those that are with me.
R
The account is not blown, some positions were liquidated to preserve margin, that is all. I expect it to recover soon.
You're right it is all about capital preservation.
Sad about Pistis I had few conversations with him, but maybe he made his money already and bought himself an island far away from us all.
I will keep trading, regardless of what happens. Overall I have a positive year and I intend to keep it that way.
I only trade OPM because I have been asked to. If no one ever asks me again that will be fine with me as well, I will still trade my funds and still post it here.
Will I have DDs in the future - you bet, will I blow any account - I hope not but its possible, that's why I have all the disclosures on my site.
I have been trading fx for 4 years, 3+ of those years were overall negative with the wrong approach.
The last 8-9 months have been very rewarding to me compared to how I did before, therefore I am truly just getting started and there are still are some kinks in the strategy and psychology to be improved upon and especially in relation to the fact that it is managed account.
I remain convinced that this will be a very rewarding journey for me and those that are with me.
R
forex_trader_1819
Member Since Oct 18, 2009
230 posts
Aug 11, 2010 at 23:37
(edited Aug 11, 2010 at 23:38)
Errrr, nope, no confusion this end. I'm referring to your account called 'MANAGED - KF'. The system has been deleted but the thread is still there.
I read a very good post on FF a couple of months ago. You may find some value in it.
'For me, and I suspect it is the same for everyone, trading success is directly linked to personal developement. Hiding the truth, or hiding from the truth is counter productive. The truth isnt pretty and often very difficult to face and even harder to admit to others. But there is no other alternative that will not cause you to subconciously punish youself in the market. Do you think I wanted everyone to watch as I took a 1k account upto 3.5k in 5 months and then down to 300 bucks in the 6th month? It was humiliating. The temptation to hide it was huge. I knew that it would only hurt me more to resort to that deception. It was not helpful to me or anyone else for that matter to pretend it didnt happen. There was no other option if I was ever going to achieve the real success that I seek. That is the psychology of trading that is so important but nobody talks about, or wants to hear. So it gets swept under the mat and we go on losing.'
https://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=3797379&postcount=339
I read a very good post on FF a couple of months ago. You may find some value in it.
'For me, and I suspect it is the same for everyone, trading success is directly linked to personal developement. Hiding the truth, or hiding from the truth is counter productive. The truth isnt pretty and often very difficult to face and even harder to admit to others. But there is no other alternative that will not cause you to subconciously punish youself in the market. Do you think I wanted everyone to watch as I took a 1k account upto 3.5k in 5 months and then down to 300 bucks in the 6th month? It was humiliating. The temptation to hide it was huge. I knew that it would only hurt me more to resort to that deception. It was not helpful to me or anyone else for that matter to pretend it didnt happen. There was no other option if I was ever going to achieve the real success that I seek. That is the psychology of trading that is so important but nobody talks about, or wants to hear. So it gets swept under the mat and we go on losing.'
https://www.forexfactory.com/showpost.php?p=3797379&postcount=339
Member Since Feb 10, 2010
24 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 00:18
Robert,
IMHO, the mistake you made was the fact that you add your losing positions down in hoping that it will come back soon. I'm sure it will come back maybe soon, but the leverage is the key which caused the margin call. In a situation like this, I'd keep leverage low and add positions when it turns to your favor. Having said that, I do understand it's easy said than done. Anyway, I think majority of people in this thread are quite generous and giving you constructive criticism which is quite encouraging.
Happy trading!
IMHO, the mistake you made was the fact that you add your losing positions down in hoping that it will come back soon. I'm sure it will come back maybe soon, but the leverage is the key which caused the margin call. In a situation like this, I'd keep leverage low and add positions when it turns to your favor. Having said that, I do understand it's easy said than done. Anyway, I think majority of people in this thread are quite generous and giving you constructive criticism which is quite encouraging.
Happy trading!
forex_trader_5776
Member Since Jan 17, 2010
140 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 01:21
(edited Aug 12, 2010 at 01:45)
One last comment from me.
Patience.
That was an exception indeed and everyone involved in that account agreed. Dow Ind. and everything else does not fall 900 point in 10 minutes exactly every month.
Winnie
I don't do adding in HOPE ok, If I add its only because my initial position has been opened too early in the trade and now I see even better opportunity. Unfortunately many times its hard to say when the top/bottom of a move has occurred.
Here is avouch for you.
All Visitors
Most of your comments I respect and understand where you're coming from. However, I decided to stop commenting here.
I don't need to explain myself to anyone and I have explained more then enough already mostly to set things straight. You will find consistency and truth in all my comments. I have my way of trading and I love it and I am going to stick with it.
To anyone thinking of investing with me let me make this clear I do not use Stop Loss Orders so beware that most traders believe its a suicide but I personally do not care what most thinks since most traders are not making any money but looking for a holy grail.
That said, always read all disclosures on my site and if for any reason you don't agree with my methods simply vote with your wallet and keep it to yourself.
Please use this board for any discussion you wish and if you have any questions for me first read the discussions on all my systems here and my website and if you cannot find the answer you can e-mail me either from the website or through a private message on this site.
Good Trading To All
Robert
Patience.
That was an exception indeed and everyone involved in that account agreed. Dow Ind. and everything else does not fall 900 point in 10 minutes exactly every month.
Winnie
I don't do adding in HOPE ok, If I add its only because my initial position has been opened too early in the trade and now I see even better opportunity. Unfortunately many times its hard to say when the top/bottom of a move has occurred.
Here is avouch for you.
All Visitors
Most of your comments I respect and understand where you're coming from. However, I decided to stop commenting here.
I don't need to explain myself to anyone and I have explained more then enough already mostly to set things straight. You will find consistency and truth in all my comments. I have my way of trading and I love it and I am going to stick with it.
To anyone thinking of investing with me let me make this clear I do not use Stop Loss Orders so beware that most traders believe its a suicide but I personally do not care what most thinks since most traders are not making any money but looking for a holy grail.
That said, always read all disclosures on my site and if for any reason you don't agree with my methods simply vote with your wallet and keep it to yourself.
Please use this board for any discussion you wish and if you have any questions for me first read the discussions on all my systems here and my website and if you cannot find the answer you can e-mail me either from the website or through a private message on this site.
Good Trading To All
Robert
forex_trader_11878
Member Since May 18, 2010
45 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 01:39
Well, considering this is investors money you deal with, one would assume you wouldn't take the extra risk assuming you would be right. On that note, I think that was a emotional mistake.
If I were your investor, I would care more about your results and hope you can do what you set out to be... 'Manage Money'. This seemed to be a case of some mismanagement. I would like to know that you take every precaution to preserve capital first and profit from it as a result. Don't over invest just to make a better ROI...just keep to your system of trading.
As for everyones theory of stop-losses and the fact that they think you wait out trades till their profitable...by all means, I would not care, just as long as it works for you for a stable amount of time. Also, High Water mark rule applies so you would be getting no performance fee until recovery...so its whatever.
Everyone is entitled to their own system...and are allowed to do whatever they want to profit.
...if you dont like the system, then just dont invest in it.
If I were your investor, I would care more about your results and hope you can do what you set out to be... 'Manage Money'. This seemed to be a case of some mismanagement. I would like to know that you take every precaution to preserve capital first and profit from it as a result. Don't over invest just to make a better ROI...just keep to your system of trading.
As for everyones theory of stop-losses and the fact that they think you wait out trades till their profitable...by all means, I would not care, just as long as it works for you for a stable amount of time. Also, High Water mark rule applies so you would be getting no performance fee until recovery...so its whatever.
Everyone is entitled to their own system...and are allowed to do whatever they want to profit.
...if you dont like the system, then just dont invest in it.
Aug 12, 2010 at 02:09
One thing that does strike me is how over confident you are. You said you had 3 losing years out of your 4 year forex trading career. Who is to say that your 8 month winning streak is now over and the losing will kick in again? Remember, one swallow doesn't make a summer.
I admire your enthusiam but do not mis-place your confidence. Best of luck to you.
I admire your enthusiam but do not mis-place your confidence. Best of luck to you.
Member Since Feb 16, 2010
1332 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 08:02
(edited Aug 12, 2010 at 08:02)
robw135 posted:
One last comment from me.
Patience.
That was an exception indeed and everyone involved in that account agreed. Dow Ind. and everything else does not fall 900 point in 10 minutes exactly every month.
If you think like this you're not real trader. A real trader is ALLWAYS prepared for the unexpected. It doesn't take much time for a disaster to happen in the forex markets.
"In trading, winning is frequently a question of luck, but losing is always a matter of skill."
forex_trader_16563
Member Since Aug 10, 2010
55 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 08:46
robw135 posted:
Will
I'll make you a deal because I'd like to see that expression on your face and I'm sure you'll agree to it because you're so honest and will do anything to protect the public from everyone except yourself.
Here it is.
Fly out to Chicago, I'll meet you at the airport or Starbucks, I'll bring a laptop with me and show you the trading history for this account live and maybe even make you a live trade right there on the spot so that it posts to this account on this site. I will not show you my account balance, you will not be able to take notes or record anything except for what your eyes can see and remember. I will be able to videotape the meeting if I desire. After that meeting you will post an apology note under this system in capital letters and you'll make an apology video and post it on your site's main page along with the video that you just made.
I believe this is very reasonable and fair.
Let me know if you accept - preferably publicly.
R
Fomacc - You're 100% correct.. A real trader understands that every trade has an amount of risk and uncertainty. Therefore, denying the fact to use risk control proves that he still wet behind the ears.
Yes, he may be able to use his strategy for months and possibly a year with out experiencing this uncertainty, but as pointed out in the video from will schaarand, investors should have seen this coming and honestly I have no remorse for his investors or for his amateur trading strategy.
Everyone praised Rob's success before this disaster and after reading the Qoute that I attached, I almost fell over laughing.
Oh damn, Just missed a Big Unexpected 70 Pip Drop on all the Yen Pairs as I type this unneeded post. It Looks like Rob needs the Advance on the trade calls. Go Short JPY, Long USD..
Aug 12, 2010 at 09:19
I agree with Zebra and Fomacc, Black swans DO HAPPEN. And exposing oneself to that RISK by having no SL is unnecessary and dangerous to the capital.
BUT, each to his own I guess. I just wanted to shed light on my opinion about using no SL.
BUT, each to his own I guess. I just wanted to shed light on my opinion about using no SL.
A person is only limited by the thoughts he chooses.
forex_trader_16563
Member Since Aug 10, 2010
55 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 09:47
zebra posted:
Go Short JPY, Long USD..
I meant Short the YEN Pairs and Go long on the $$ pairs... As we can All tell by a simple technical and fundamental analysis. Equity markets are plunging and $$$ is flowing into SafeHaven. Just like what happened in Late 2008... I expect the same Outcome.. So lets Double Up and make 50043042% returns this month.. These UNCERTAIN momentum busts happen quickly, so don't sit on the side lines and Wish you rode this one out.. Don't be stupid though, Small retracements will take place. And control your Risk.. Best Luck to everyones trading and lets all learn together and learn from Other peoples mistakes so we do not have to experience the pain!
forex_trader_1819
Member Since Oct 18, 2009
230 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 10:27
robw135 posted:
Patience.
That was an exception indeed and everyone involved in that account agreed. Dow Ind. and everything else does not fall 900 point in 10 minutes exactly every month.
Okay, you're not really getting it. If you trade without a stop loss you have to be prepared for worst case scenario. The Dow didn't fall 900 points yesterday but you were still margin called. Reduce your risk and good luck.
Member Since Feb 18, 2010
7 posts
Aug 12, 2010 at 11:32
Physical stop losses are there for physical protection of your capital. What is most important is the mental stop loss i.e. the price area at which your original reasoning for the trade entry proves invalid (This price then forms the basis of your risk calculation. You then have to manage the cumulative risk to one event occurring too and realize what max equity is exposed at any one time). As a trader you need the discipline to accept when you are wrong and take a loss - that is something I think you need to realize as it is impossible to obtain a win % you were obtaining without taking unnecessary risks i.e. not accepting losses.
For example your average pip win is 21 ish pips or so and yet you've just had losses of 340 pips on EJ and 240 on UJ and still have only 50% equity...you were playing the trends and then the trend changed...it should have taken a much higher price than 340 from your entry on EJ to realize that your reasoning for entry was wrong and we are seeing change in the short term tend...Equity markets gave a lot of clues that a sell-off was coming IMO...but in any case it goes back to having the mental discipline to be able to realize when you are wrong and accepting it...I cant believe that you r reasoning for your entry was not invalidated long before 340 pips draw-down especially as you are shooting for small pips each trade.
IMO this is the biggest glaring issue....don't be scared to be wrong, losses are a cost of this business and you need to be able to accept them. It should not take a 340 pip drop for you to realize you were wrong if you are shooting for 20 odd pips per trade. You also need to have catastrophe risk controls...i.e. total equity acceptable draw-down, total balance draw-down before you stop trading...these don't stop big winners these provide capital protection and stop margin calls.
The move on Dow yesterday was not a black swan event, it did not occur in a few minutes it was a market sell-off in risk which was long over due and the warning signs were there following NFP.
A margin call is a very serious event to happen and I would strongly urge you to consider it as such...it's the worse thing that can happen to a trader and especially a trader managing other people's money. If you think it was just because you were over leveraged or because of the market sell-off then I would urge you to re-look at this...as the real issue IMO is the fact that it takes over 300pips fall in EJ, and the drop in UJ before you even begin to realize you got the trade wrong...that is the biggest point I see from the margin call you need to be able to accept a lower win rate and realize when you are wrong. You win rate was too high so it was pretty obvious that you were holding trades too long i.e. losing trades...this works find when you are in a strong trend and trading in the direction of the trend but as soon as we get a drop / change you'll suffer unnecessarily large losses.
As I said physical stop losses are not the issue it's the mental ones that are and having the discipline to accept when wrong or knowing at what price to cut a trade and lastly having some basic capital protection in place to stop a catastrophe event like a margin call occurring. I would strongly urge you to look into this in a lot more detail as this is not the first time it has happened and it will keep occurring until you change this approach IMO.
I'm just trying to help a fellow trader from my observations and experience.
For example your average pip win is 21 ish pips or so and yet you've just had losses of 340 pips on EJ and 240 on UJ and still have only 50% equity...you were playing the trends and then the trend changed...it should have taken a much higher price than 340 from your entry on EJ to realize that your reasoning for entry was wrong and we are seeing change in the short term tend...Equity markets gave a lot of clues that a sell-off was coming IMO...but in any case it goes back to having the mental discipline to be able to realize when you are wrong and accepting it...I cant believe that you r reasoning for your entry was not invalidated long before 340 pips draw-down especially as you are shooting for small pips each trade.
IMO this is the biggest glaring issue....don't be scared to be wrong, losses are a cost of this business and you need to be able to accept them. It should not take a 340 pip drop for you to realize you were wrong if you are shooting for 20 odd pips per trade. You also need to have catastrophe risk controls...i.e. total equity acceptable draw-down, total balance draw-down before you stop trading...these don't stop big winners these provide capital protection and stop margin calls.
The move on Dow yesterday was not a black swan event, it did not occur in a few minutes it was a market sell-off in risk which was long over due and the warning signs were there following NFP.
A margin call is a very serious event to happen and I would strongly urge you to consider it as such...it's the worse thing that can happen to a trader and especially a trader managing other people's money. If you think it was just because you were over leveraged or because of the market sell-off then I would urge you to re-look at this...as the real issue IMO is the fact that it takes over 300pips fall in EJ, and the drop in UJ before you even begin to realize you got the trade wrong...that is the biggest point I see from the margin call you need to be able to accept a lower win rate and realize when you are wrong. You win rate was too high so it was pretty obvious that you were holding trades too long i.e. losing trades...this works find when you are in a strong trend and trading in the direction of the trend but as soon as we get a drop / change you'll suffer unnecessarily large losses.
As I said physical stop losses are not the issue it's the mental ones that are and having the discipline to accept when wrong or knowing at what price to cut a trade and lastly having some basic capital protection in place to stop a catastrophe event like a margin call occurring. I would strongly urge you to look into this in a lot more detail as this is not the first time it has happened and it will keep occurring until you change this approach IMO.
I'm just trying to help a fellow trader from my observations and experience.
