5% average monthly profit for at least 2 years (with less than 25% max. DD)

@VPTrader

You are right. There is no proof... Just strong suspicions.

But lets consider for how many years Bernie Madoff could fool even the most savvy and smartest investors in the USA. Not to mention the SEC...

So there is no clear answer to your question. The results are simply 'too good to be true' and ALL THESE STRATEGY LEADERS REFUSE TO RUN THEIR STRATEGIES AT ANY OTHER 'MAINSTREAM' BROKERS for reference and validation. I have approached them with this request and the copycat answer was: 'We don't need to prove anything to anybody'.... And it is a BIG RED FLAG.

So why on Earth they would not validate their results by running (or copying) the signals to an account opened at a mainstream (e.g. ASIC registered) broker if this simple step could triple their clientele and their profits...??? I guess we all 'know' or at least suspect the answer...

Their potential pyramid scam can go on for a VERY-VERY long time until they run out of new investors, i.e. fresh blood. Which is why all of them employ an aggressive Multi Level Marketing (MLM) scheme, which is obviously and absolutely needed to keep the 'fresh blood' coming in.

So the final question: Is it worth the risk of losing EVERYTHING at the end...?

The system i shared here is performing well. This week it has made more than 800 pips. Everyday i get the feeling that it is everything I need, what more can i ask for? Lol

Its funny how I don't have a penny to invest for trading live I am waiting to finish my degree come end of this year mayb next year I can save up $5 000 when i get full time employment.

@FxMasterGuru

Thanks for your quick respons.

I agree that parts are quite suspicious. Let´s say it is a sophisticated scheme, is there any way for us, to actually know and find proof? I mean, is it even possible to get more information than what we have as for now? It sounds like you know a lot about the fx industry, would it be possible to verify their live trades and compare those to other brokers in real time, making sure that those are actually real trades being taken, creating these results?

I have also asked the question about providing another broker, for transparency reasons, and stated that they would benefit a lot from doing so, and they told me they are investigating other alternatives. Could be true, or could not. But is it really unreasonable that a smaller managed account provide (perhaps 25-50 million usd in unleveraged funds) could receive much better conditions, spreads, liquidity from a smaller broker? They state that bigger brokers, like FXCM and others didn´t offer them as good conditions and for scalping strategies that make a huge difference. They are all also very open to the fact that it is the broker which gives them their edge in their specific strategies, no hush hush there according to my dialog with different firms (Anmaric and Perfecto).

I also been in contact with the broker and at least all support and correspondence have been very professional.

@FxMasterGuru

Also, do you belive that FPA:s live test on Anmaric RHO counts for nothing? https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/managed_forex_performance/anmaric_rho_programm/real

I mean, the reason for FPA doing this is to detect scams, bot of course, if the data is maniuplated through the broker, perhaps it will "pass" the FPA test aswell?

It sure gives some credability though...

@VPTrader

1. Using ICM or TickMill should not have an impact on their strategy's performance. For example: ICM's and TickMill's spreads are extremely good, and I doubt they could get better spreads than these brokers provide. On the same note: If 3TGFX were such an extremely good broker for scalpers why it has not become the industry leader...? After so many years why is it still a no-name broker...?

2. Oh, yes. VERIFIED MyFxBook data can easily manipulated (i.e. forged, cooked, etc), especially if the strategy management and the broker are under the same roof.

3. With the published results they would be immediately purchased by one of the major financial institutions for at least a few hundred million dollars. Still, they prefer to sacrifice about half of their fees to finance their MLM sales agent army who are peddling day-by-day to pull-in more and more fresh blood.

4. Also - interestingly - all these fantastic strategy developers are Hungary-based and all of them are running their schemes at NZD-registered brokers... By the way just a few weeks ago three MAJOR Hungarian broker firms had been found running large scale Ponzi schemes (like Madoff) stealing HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Hungarian Forints from Hungarian citizens. They did it so well, that even the HUNGARIAN GOVERNMENT has invested with them.
https://hungarianspectrum.org/2015/03/24/the-quaestor-scandal/
https://hungarytoday.hu/cikk/prime-minister-fire-opposition-remarks-quaestor-scandal-14177
https://budapestbeacon.com/economics/police-raid-buda-cash-one-of-hungarys-oldest-financial-brokerage-houses/

5. There is NO WAY to prove any wrongdoing. Apparently it can be done so well, that even a government would give hundreds of millions to such scammers.

In summary: there are simply too many red flags.

All in all their is no way to prove if a person is using the method they are suggesting. As the above poster mentioned it is best to stay clear of those 'small brokers' as many of them are 'white label' brokers, or the person could have someone on the insider who can change their trade history to make it appear as if it is normal.
  Honestly, if you are considering investing with someone who has made their account public, then make sure it is in a PAMM setting. If not don't waste your time. Also don't waste your time with people who simply post charts, or trade DEMO, as once they actually trade in a live account they seem to boom it quicker then you can say 'NO'. I'd say go with PAMM or don't go at all.. Brokers like rvdmarkets to me is the best broker to use for PAMM, and that broker has enough liquidity to not only honor withdrawals right away, but they will send it to you in under 30 mins after your request.

Mthiya posted:
Thanks Guys for positive comments about the strategy I posted, especially Crazytrader and FX MAster Guru you seem to know the markets.

Since I am new to trading. I decided to start with 5000 deposit and trade 0.01 lots so I can increase this based on what the strategy gives me. So far drawdown is under 2% that means if increase lots by 5 to 0.05 the return will be 25% for the same period of trading. I think I am ready now.

What's with people shooting each other here? Lol

 If you have a 5000 account, and your lot sizes are only of .01 lots and you have a 2% or even 1% drawdown, then my friend your system isn't any good.

ScalpingRus posted:

Mthiya posted:
Thanks Guys for positive comments about the strategy I posted, especially Crazytrader and FX MAster Guru you seem to know the markets.

Since I am new to trading. I decided to start with 5000 deposit and trade 0.01 lots so I can increase this based on what the strategy gives me. So far drawdown is under 2% that means if increase lots by 5 to 0.05 the return will be 25% for the same period of trading. I think I am ready now.

What's with people shooting each other here? Lol

 If you have a 5000 account, and your lot sizes are only of .01 lots and you have a 2% or even 1% drawdown, then my friend your system isn't any good.

Thanks maybe it isn't but nonetheless I will continue trading it.

@FxMasterGuru

I agree with you on all parts. But to sum up: can you then ever trust the results from a third party (i.e MFB or FXBlue) what so ever? And in that case, what would you like to see?

If then watching the trades in real time on Mt4 an comparing with the prices from other brokers would that be sufficient or could it still be fabricated?

Do you agree with @ScalpingRus that PAMM is a lot safer than MAM? Making it harder to manipulate.

Also, do you need to 'own' the broker to fabricate the results or could it be done in other ways to aswell (not co-operating with the broker)?

I know some guys who have been/are invested with those strategy providers and have withdrawed funds and seen the actual performance, but of course it could still be a scheme. You don´t know until all breaks down....I will ask the companies to expand, using more than one broker, and if they are able to provide this, then perhaps we could evaluate further. Otherwise it ends there.

I agree, this specific 'situation' smells weird, but the reason for all my questions is not only yo evaluate this specific providers, but rather to grasp the full picture when evaluating other strategies and managed accounts. I am investigating those, opinions?

40 k minimum investment

ScalpingRus posted:
 All in all their is no way to prove if a person is using the method they are suggesting. As the above poster mentioned it is best to stay clear of those 'small brokers' as many of them are 'white label' brokers, or the person could have someone on the insider who can change their trade history to make it appear as if it is normal.
  Honestly, if you are considering investing with someone who has made their account public, then make sure it is in a PAMM setting. If not don't waste your time. Also don't waste your time with people who simply post charts, or trade DEMO, as once they actually trade in a live account they seem to boom it quicker then you can say 'NO'. I'd say go with PAMM or don't go at all.. Brokers like rvdmarkets to me is the best broker to use for PAMM, and that broker has enough liquidity to not only honor withdrawals right away, but they will send it to you in under 30 mins after your request.

Thanks for your replay.

I believe no brokers can be trusted in this industry, not even the 'mainstream' or big ones. Just look at Alpari and FXCM UK earlier this year (have the people who helds funds at Alpari still been compensated?) Being able to really trust the brokers you need to move over to more regulated markets, like futures, and for example trade the FX futures listed on CME. But of course, some FX brokers might be better that others, and having an UK registered broker might be better than a small from NZ.

So PAMM is more safe the MAM? Could you explain further.
What else would you like to see?

I would never go for demo results or only charts. Even if they can provide real MAM or PAMM accounts I still put a lot of time evaluating the strategy, the team (how professional the support is), the brokers and the regulations, but still find myself not quite trusting it. In the end the whole FX industry is a black box, and making a decision involves a lof of risk. I try to follow my 'guts'.

If you were to state the most important things, were you put the most weight, what would those be?

Thanks and have a great weekend

@FxMasterGuru

*The last to above don´t show their results on MFB though, but making it easy to manipulate the results, perhaps those larger firms don´t even bother to use those third party solutions, simply because they don´t have to. Both Swiss Direkt and Foyle looks good. I will take meeting, but all input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

VPTrader posted:
@FxMasterGuru

I agree with you on all parts. But to sum up: can you then ever trust the results from a third party (i.e MFB or FXBlue) what so ever? And in that case, what would you like to see?

If then watching the trades in real time on Mt4 an comparing with the prices from other brokers would that be sufficient or could it still be fabricated?

Do you agree with @ScalpingRus that PAMM is a lot safer than MAM? Making it harder to manipulate.

Also, do you need to 'own' the broker to fabricate the results or could it be done in other ways to aswell (not co-operating with the broker)?

I know some guys who have been/are invested with those strategy providers and have withdrawed funds and seen the actual performance, but of course it could still be a scheme. You don´t know until all breaks down....I will ask the companies to expand, using more than one broker, and if they are able to provide this, then perhaps we could evaluate further. Otherwise it ends there.

I agree, this specific 'situation' smells weird, but the reason for all my questions is not only yo evaluate this specific providers, but rather to grasp the full picture when evaluating other strategies and managed accounts. I am investigating those, opinions?

40 k minimum investment

1. You will not see any real-time results with the mentioned strategies. Trades are - conveniently - delayed. I have seen it first-hand. The reason they claim was that they wanted to prevent copy-cats, but my suspicion is that they needed some time to hand-craft their trades. Which is why they will never be real-time signal providers - even for $1000 per month - and you will never see them on ConnectForex or on AutoTrade.

2. As with any pyramid-scheme it is possible to withdraw funds, until the very end. Many people managed to get some nice virtual profits from Bernie Madoff, and even the Hungarian government could take out its own investments with profits from the mentioned scam brokers (of course after getting an insider call the day before the crash).

3. Yes, there has to be an inside-man to fabricate verified results, so with small, no-name broker companies it is easy. But usually the inside man is the owner of brokerage himself.

4. Large, mainstream and highly regulated brokers have too much to lose with such scams, which is why I would trust verified results published only through reputable brokers. At least we can assume that the strategy developer and the broker are not under the same roof, so the chance of conspiracy is low.

5. Yes, CME regulated Futures and Commodities are much more trustable, but one need significantly larger funds to trade on these markets, and the success rate of the different strategies is not better there. In other words there is much more to lose on Futures and Commodities.

@FxMasterGuru

Thanks.

1. I see. So even real time mt4 access is not sufficient enought since it has some lagging involved (in those specific cases)? But if it would not be laggning, would you trust it?

2. Yes, agree....

3. Of course. I understand.

4. Makes sense.

5. Absolutely. You need to work with greater amounts and still diversify, so in funds, the risk i higher.

Sorry, seems like the other strategies did not show in my other comments. Here is what I wrote:

https://forexmanager.co.za/
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/ForexManagerDBA

https://www.foylecapital.com/

https://www.swissdirekt.ch/en/home-en/

What about those? Do you in any way find those 'suspicious' or have heard anything bad regarding the companies before?

I more and more start to think that I should put more value to the managed accounts which do not have any 'track records' through third partys and especially those where there is not much written about them at all (probably don not need to market themselves, simply using word-by-mouth instead). Then ask for mt4 access to PAMM accounts and watch the trades some time, comparing to other brokers prices. Also only those which work with bigger, well-known brokers in more regulated countries and ALSO have more than one broker to chose from (decreasing the risk for 'fabricated' results). What do you think about those criterias and do you have anything to add to my 'list'?

Appreciate it

Well, I guess it just takes time to follow up some specific postings and see if they really deliver the profits thay say consistently.

VPTrader posted:
@FxMasterGuru

Thanks.

1. I see. So even real time mt4 access is not sufficient enought since it has some lagging involved (in those specific cases)? But if it would not be laggning, would you trust it?

2. Yes, agree....

3. Of course. I understand.

4. Makes sense.

5. Absolutely. You need to work with greater amounts and still diversify, so in funds, the risk i higher.

Sorry, seems like the other strategies did not show in my other comments. Here is what I wrote:

https://forexmanager.co.za/
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/ForexManagerDBA

https://www.foylecapital.com/

https://www.swissdirekt.ch/en/home-en/

What about those? Do you in any way find those 'suspicious' or have heard anything bad regarding the companies before?

I more and more start to think that I should put more value to the managed accounts which do not have any 'track records' through third partys and especially those where there is not much written about them at all (probably don not need to market themselves, simply using word-by-mouth instead). Then ask for mt4 access to PAMM accounts and watch the trades some time, comparing to other brokers prices. Also only those which work with bigger, well-known brokers in more regulated countries and ALSO have more than one broker to chose from (decreasing the risk for 'fabricated' results). What do you think about those criterias and do you have anything to add to my 'list'?

Appreciate it

@VPTrader

1. 'put more value to the managed accounts which do not have any 'track records' through third partys'

- Well, I would still require 3rd party confirmation, preferably via a PRIVATE MFB LINK, i.e. which is not shown/marketed to the public.

2. 'especially those where there is not much written about them at all'

- The less talk and chit-chat about them on the net, the better. So, definitely a yes.

3. 'Then ask for mt4 access to PAMM accounts and watch the trades some time'

- Good idea, although I doubt that any PAMM manager would give investor access to his live trades - fearing of copycats.

4. 'only those which work with bigger, well-known brokers in more regulated countries'

- IT IS A MUST and THE UTMOST IMPORTANT POINT OF THE LIST.

5. 'also have more than one broker to chose from (decreasing the risk for 'fabricated' results)'

- Yes, it would be an added safety feature to #4.
___________________________________________

I would add:

6. At least TWO (but preferably THREE) YEARS of verified track record.

7. Max. DD < 10% (for larger funds).

8. MonthlyProfit/Max. DD ratio: 1:1 or better.
____________________________________________

NONE OF THE LISTED FX SERVICE PROVIDER FULFILL THE ABOVE CRITERIA...

@VPTrader

1. 'put more value to the managed accounts which do not have any 'track records' through third partys'

- Well, I would still require 3rd party confirmation, preferably via a PRIVATE MFB LINK, i.e. which is not shown/marketed to the public.

2. 'especially those where there is not much written about them at all'

- The less talk and chit-chat about them on the net, the better. So, definitely a yes.

3. 'Then ask for mt4 access to PAMM accounts and watch the trades some time'

- Good idea, although I doubt that any PAMM manager would give investor access to his live trades - fearing of copycats.

4. 'only those which work with bigger, well-known brokers in more regulated countries'

- IT IS A MUST and THE UTMOST IMPORTANT POINT OF THE LIST.

5. 'also have more than one broker to chose from (decreasing the risk for 'fabricated' results)'

- Yes, it would be an added safety feature to #4.
___________________________________________

I would add:

6. At least TWO (but preferably THREE) YEARS of verified track record.

7. Max. DD < 10% (for larger funds).

8. MonthlyProfit/Max. DD ratio: 1:1 or better.
____________________________________________

NONE OF THE LISTED FX SERVICE PROVIDER FULFILL THE ABOVE CRITERIA...

Thanks.

1-2. Yes, that´s basically what I meant. The important part is whether you approach them, asking for comfirmation rather than they approaching you 'selling' the solutions. For Anmaric, Perfecto etc. you can read about them all over, and there is also a lot of 'rubberband ads' all over the internet.

Question:
a) Would you prefer MFB next to ie. FXBlue or other third partys? And why?
b) I guess live access to Mt4, seeking trades in real time is better than seeing the solutions through a third party? Especially if the trades are not lagging...

3. Agree, but they should be able to provide it for a couple of weeks at least. Then you can verify the results, comparing to the traders posten in their internal system/login page.

Question:
a) Is it an easy task to provide a 'temporary login' to the Mt4 PAMM account, limiting the access to a couple of weeks and then switching password or does this take a lot of time or in some way is hard to do?

4-5. Agree.

6-8. Agree. I could personally tolerate a bit higher DD, but as you state: the larger the funds the lower DD you could tolerate. If going back to your original thread, all those above fullfill the criterias, but if you add < 10 % DD they don´t.

I will take a meeting with them, and if it´s possible to start out with 10-20 k usd it sure looks interesting to take a closer look.

Looking at those three in particular, any more feedback?

@FxMasterGuru

Here is some accounts from Swiss direkt. Of course, they still need to be verified, and not 5 % each month, but still looks good to me. One is only 10 k minimum initial deposit:

https://topsheets.net/TopSheet.aspx?crmCustRep=1&topSheetId=107&id=3010&pdf=1&view=1

https://topsheets.net/TopSheet.aspx?crmCustRep=1&topSheetId=107&id=3008&pdf=1&view=1

https://topsheets.net/TopSheet.aspx?crmCustRep=1&topSheetId=107&id=3006&pdf=1&view=1

https://topsheets.net/TopSheet.aspx?crmCustRep=1&topSheetId=107&id=3007&pdf=1&view=1

Please take a look and come back with feedback. Appreciate it.

I had 5% for the last two years till the SNB decision broke that DD level. Except that i was below 25% DD.

@FxMasterGuru

Here is from Foyle:

https://foylecapital.com/factsheet.pdf