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vontogr (togr)
Nov 24 2016 at 12:49
4862 posts
c3po posted:
CliveCampbell posted:
togr posted:
Guys,
it may be perhaps better to use hidden stop loss instead accusing broker of such practice as it is very difficult to prove it.


Interesting point, thanks for sharing!


you work for FXCM dont you. trying to bury my post. ok ill put it i my signature and reply to everything you post.



'Ill bet if you balanced their book, FXCM gets 100% of their revenue from this scamming small and new investors short positions.'


Nope I do work only for myself (I have some guys under my IB but IcMarkets.)
What I was trying to say is to fix the issue instead of complaining

Clive (CliveCampbell)
Nov 24 2016 at 12:58
47 posts
c3po posted:
you work for FXCM dont you. You are trying to bury my post. The above post is totally irrelevant and NON interesting compared to what im saying

...... ok ill put it in my signature and reply to everything you post.



'I would bet if you balanced their book, FXCM gets 100% of their revenue from this scamming small and new investors short positions by unfair manipulation of their Ask price by a factor of x10 just before a selloff to close the orders and pocket the money.'


Hey, wait a second, wasn't it me saying that what you said is a classic example of stop hunting? It is good you expose such practices and you have my support for that. I'm not trying to burry anything...

c3po
Nov 24 2016 at 13:08
51 posts
CliveCampbell posted:
c3po posted:
you work for FXCM dont you. You are trying to bury my post. The above post is totally irrelevant and NON interesting compared to what im saying

...... ok ill put it in my signature and reply to everything you post.



'I would bet if you balanced their book, FXCM gets 100% of their revenue from this scamming small and new investors short positions by unfair manipulation of their Ask price by a factor of x10 just before a selloff to close the orders and pocket the money.'


Hey, wait a second, wasn't it me saying that what you said is a classic example of stop hunting? It is good you expose such practices and you have my support for that. I'm not trying to burry anything...
\

its NOT STOP HUNTING. Its DECEPTIVE ASK PRICE MANIPULATION.



c3po
Nov 24 2016 at 13:09
51 posts
togr posted:
c3po posted:
CliveCampbell posted:
togr posted:
Guys,
it may be perhaps better to use hidden stop loss instead accusing broker of such practice as it is very difficult to prove it.


Interesting point, thanks for sharing!


you work for FXCM dont you. trying to bury my post. ok ill put it i my signature and reply to everything you post.



'Ill bet if you balanced their book, FXCM gets 100% of their revenue from this scamming small and new investors short positions.'


Nope I do work only for myself (I have some guys under my IB but IcMarkets.)
What I was trying to say is to fix the issue instead of complaining


I'm not complaining. I'm setting the record straight for the original poster here (and everyone else) that its NOT 'market manipulation' but for example an individual broker may be shady such as FXCM CHEATS the small and new investor by unfairly and deceptively manipulating their Ask price immediately before a selloff just in time for all investors (specific to small accounts/ small investors/ new investors with tight sell stoplosses under 50 pips) to set their stoploss so they can steal the persons money by jumping the Ask line up and closing their order.

the only way to fix it is to not go short if you're using a small stoploss, but how else can the small investor make money than by using small stoplosses? using big stoplosses with a small acct against these crooked brokers will never generate money worth the time investment.

vontogr (togr)
Nov 24 2016 at 15:25
4862 posts
c3po posted:
CliveCampbell posted:
c3po posted:
I didn't say FXCM hunts stops. i said THEY CHEAT by jumping their Ask line up a factor of 10 immediately before a selloff.

Furthermore the USA government regulators channel customers to FXCM based on the fact that they are USA regulated and naive USA clients think thats a good thing, whereas in fact, the over-restrictive rules are not conducive to increasing acct balance for tiny accounts; the govt agents are no doubt in collusion with this FXCM cheating scam and enforce it. I hope Trump will end yalls scam.

if you have an account big enough to handle their manipulation of the Ask price, then you can succeed shorting, that is if you ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to have big giant stop losses. people in poverty working to scalp to increase a tiny account (and going short as this specific complaint is specific to shorting) with tight managment (tight stoplosses) are lunch for FXCM as hedging is prohibited to US clients so we cant hedge the loss thanks to USA law makers. we have to take the loss.

i guess if you never short and only go long so you dont get raped by the Ask line jumping up then no problem. This though is only one of the issues with FXCM. they are up to other stuff too that make them very unattractive to the small investor.


Well, to my understanding what you are saying is pure stop hunting. And stop hunting applies to both long and short positions as stop losses can be set to both. I understand that you are referring to shorting particularly, though. What you say makes sense only if the broker trades against the client and is able to see where the client sets its stop losses. I read the questions posted by Ben and it would be useful to all of us to get the answers.
Once again - thank you for raising up this issue.


you also miss the point. Let me ask you this, if you open a buy, do they jump the ask price up a factor of 10 between the time you order and the time your order is filled? No they dont, why? because its too obvious.

Whereas, during a sell, often people dont even have the ask price showing, as who would expect spread to jump from 3 pips to 30 pips for about 20 times immediately before a selloff?

Its a very quick jump of Ask price up from 3 to 30 pips to pop everyones sell stoplosses. How is that relatable to going Long--once you put in your order you can forget spread, you already paid it. but for Sells, you dont pay the spread until you close the trade. and you close it at the Ask price right? if the broker jumps their ask price up a factor of 10 or 20 to hit your stoploss, then how is relative to going long? its not, not at all.

Ill bet if you balanced their book, FXCM gets 100% of their revenue from this scamming small and new investors short positions.
 


Do you mean ...Its a very quick jump of Ask price up from 3 to 30 pips... spread widening?
It could happen but if your stops are hidden how can broker stops hunt them.
Guys do you have any evidence or something?

Clive (CliveCampbell)
Nov 24 2016 at 15:37
47 posts
@c3po Whatever you call it, I agree with you that this is manipulation (cheating) by the broker. IMHO, If a broker knows your stop loss levels, it can manipulate the price and kick you out of the market no matter what position (short or long) you open. The more people like you expose such manipulations, the better.

c3po
Nov 24 2016 at 16:31
51 posts
togr posted:
Do you mean ...Its a very quick jump of Ask price up from 3 to 30 pips... spread widening?
It could happen but if your stops are hidden how can broker stops hunt them.
Guys do you have any evidence or something?


yes spread widening. considering a 3 pips spread for the last 6 hours and you see a selloff coming in the next few minutes, if your stoploss is hidden the broker still knows its there with hundreds of other people's at the logical place you put stoploss such as before the last fractal or something, the broker still knows its there. if you see a 3 pip spread and put Stoploss at 30 pips to be safe, and the Ask jumps up to hit your 30 pip Stoploss....

or could FXCM broker be popping up the Ask price on individual platforms? Such as Bid stays same for everyone but each individual's Ask price jumps up just to their own stoploss on their own personal MT4 platform on their machine? I know MT4 Server has some sneaky tricks but that would be excessively fraudulent and someone should go to jail for that. thats pretty unlikely though.

vontogr (togr)
Nov 25 2016 at 09:01
4862 posts
Guys a lot of brokers widen spread especially during high volatility.
Even so called fixed spreads are being stretched.

kieran (snapdragon1970)
Nov 25 2016 at 12:40
1944 posts
c3po posted:
togr posted:
Do you mean ...Its a very quick jump of Ask price up from 3 to 30 pips... spread widening?
It could happen but if your stops are hidden how can broker stops hunt them.
Guys do you have any evidence or something?


yes spread widening. considering a 3 pips spread for the last 6 hours and you see a selloff coming in the next few minutes, if your stoploss is hidden the broker still knows its there with hundreds of other people's at the logical place you put stoploss such as before the last fractal or something, the broker still knows its there. if you see a 3 pip spread and put Stoploss at 30 pips to be safe, and the Ask jumps up to hit your 30 pip Stoploss....

or could FXCM broker be popping up the Ask price on individual platforms? Such as Bid stays same for everyone but each individual's Ask price jumps up just to their own stoploss on their own personal MT4 platform on their machine? I know MT4 Server has some sneaky tricks but that would be excessively fraudulent and someone should go to jail for that. thats pretty unlikely though.

You could try to put your stop somewhere else apart from the obvious place , you could trade after the spike has occurred , lets say your looking at eur/usd the obvious place was 06000 to take a trade so lets say most went short from this level , say we had a stoploss of 20-50 points the most obvious push would be at least 100 points to take out stops, but looking back on the 1hr chart you can see the final spike almost lines up with the support on the 23rd major sell bar, it takes it out by a few points, that's a signal but not always , that's when I would go short. That's an example, I'm sure you can see eur/usd is in an up trend even though eur sentiment is negative.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
SaltyWaters
Nov 25 2016 at 17:54
247 posts
c3po posted:
togr posted:
Do you mean ...Its a very quick jump of Ask price up from 3 to 30 pips... spread widening?
It could happen but if your stops are hidden how can broker stops hunt them.
Guys do you have any evidence or something?


yes spread widening. considering a 3 pips spread for the last 6 hours and you see a selloff coming in the next few minutes, if your stoploss is hidden the broker still knows its there with hundreds of other people's at the logical place you put stoploss such as before the last fractal or something, the broker still knows its there. if you see a 3 pip spread and put Stoploss at 30 pips to be safe, and the Ask jumps up to hit your 30 pip Stoploss....

or could FXCM broker be popping up the Ask price on individual platforms? Such as Bid stays same for everyone but each individual's Ask price jumps up just to their own stoploss on their own personal MT4 platform on their machine? I know MT4 Server has some sneaky tricks but that would be excessively fraudulent and someone should go to jail for that. thats pretty unlikely though.


I guess I know what you mean. I've seen it happen, not only with FXCM but with other brokers too. I'm not sure they are targeting individual platforms though, I think they do that in general or/and maybe randomly, and they are not just after your stop loss, they are after your entry points too by opening your trade very far from where you saw the price when you decided to enter the market (always look at the spread before entering a trade). I've seen a 50+ pips spread for a short and at the same time 3 or 4 pips spread for long and the amazing fact was the market was quite death, not moving at all but for around an hour this was the case - if he price moved 1 or 2 pips down the spread will increase to 50 pips in no time , if it move 1 or 2 pips up the spread would be 3 or 4 pips only. I looked around for news to justify the reason behind it but couldn't find a valid one. (That reminds me, that was one of the reasons I left FXCM back in 2010.)
The biggest I've seen from another broker (back in 2008) I can not recall their name, it was a screenshot shared by another fellow trader was a stop loss taken down by a 200 pip spread (it was not a spike, it was the spread).

In regards to manipulation, one can see sometimes within the same broker if you have multiple accounts and you have the platforms open in the same computer the price and the spread sometimes varies from platform to platform. Or if you have the same EA with the same strategy running in more than one account, one platform may open a trade while the other doesn't.

Hidden SL and hidden TP may help but if it's within the range it will be taken down. One may be lucky when it comes to TP but not when it comes to SL.

You can still beat the bastards if you have a good strategy and you know how to control your emotions.

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