Discusión Frero

Some of these are maybe okey, I am watching few of these since months.

Just would like to point something:

I am avoiding any signal that is with offshore broker and add random letter after the pair names, i.e. EURUSDS.

I think they do it to avoid some legal actions against them because it is not exactly EURUSD but something little different.

There could be a case where the broker and the signal provider are the same person and then the broker could benefit if the signal wipe out all accounts (assuming the broker does not open them for real and plays against you). It is hard to prove but it is possible.

Mostly of the signal start strategies are pure martingale which I am trying to avoid. It is really hard to find good reliable non-martingale system. Lowering the risk could be very helpful. Probably constant long term winning system is something that does not exist at all.

It is something like Holy Grail but no one found it :-)

Anyway this is Frero topic, lets keep it that way.

noefekts posted:

There could be a case where the broker and the signal provider are the same person and then the broker could benefit if the signal wipe out all accounts (assuming the broker does not open them for real and plays against you). It is hard to prove but it is possible.

Correct - many signals are created by the brokers themselves, and they supply manipulated data to show great performance.

The benefit here is that broker makes commission when we trade. And the signal fee.

When they crash the signal they dont lose any money - because the same amount of trades are hedged in another account.

I'm having trouble following this argument.

'The benefit is that the broker makes commission when we trade.' That is true only if we use the same broker.

And what incentive does the broker/trader have for crashing the signal? You point out correctly that the broker/trader is making money from the signal subscription fee. But when the broker/trader purposely crashes the signal, they are likely to lose a lot of subscribers, so they have less income from those fees.

Broker itself is the signal provider.

So they make money from signal fees.

And also, if people trade with the same broker hoping to get less slippage.

And, they crash the signal soon after, because their purpose is not to make money for followers. Its to collect fee and be done.

The signal was crashed right after a big withdrawal.

@JForex78

Let's try to be objective - many strategies use big risk with low reward which could lead to huge loss in a matter of hours. Especially martingale ones. This does not means that the broker is involved in any way. It is just because of the risk these strategies carry.

It is very easy to blame the signal and its broker in some kind of when losing money. It is similar to blame the market price in some conspiracy against the signal, i.e. you. I think it is possible but rare in signalstart. In mostly cases the strategies fails just because they are not enough sustainable/flexible.

I still have good faith in this one because of many reasons.

I think trading is too hard that many traders failed. Even the one that think they are great still fail sometimes.

I am a signal provider myself so I can share some information from this end: the fees is not much. There are not many subscribers. I only have 8 active subscribers now. The money from subscribers is cut 30% to SignalStart. The fee when withdraw is high. There is not much left compared to what I make by my own money.

I don't think Broker is signal provider.

I am now more a subscriber than signal provider on SS. There are some good signals.

@JForex78

There are always shady brokers which should be avoided and everything related with them. I already point which signals I am avoiding.

Good thing is that signalstart is monitoring for this kind of rude manipulations. They should be easy to catch automatic by comparing the prices at the time of the trades.

There is two consecutive 'histories' in signalstart - one is the date signal started trading taken from his account history. It could be 5 years ago. The other one is the date the signal was added into the platform. After that date signalstart could catch the manipulation at some point.

I would suggest to avoid signals with less than a month or two since appearing at the platform or at least try them on demo account for some time.

What is this period in your case, it will be helpful for the others?

noefekts posted:

What is this period in your case, it will be helpful for the others?

I only pick signals 3M and above. But, it doesnt stop the scam. They have crashed right after subscription.

The problem with 'copy trading' is that if you want to copy trades from another very successfull trader and account you'd need to have the exact same account (same broker, same lot-sizes, same leverage, same capital/equity) and mindset. I guess most of the copy traders don't have it. For example: a signal provider has an account with 20k and is using 0.2lot for each trade and on longterm (so, there might be negative or positive swaps), you can't trade on your (maybe even different broker) account with the same stuff if your account is only 2k. Because with a 2k account you'd have to use 0.02lot instead of 0.2lot. That's why most copy traders crashing their own accounts while professional traders never lose (with their huge accounts).

And this system here I don't see crashing. It's still updated by MyFXbook and numbers seem to be all fine. He's using a regulated broker and even low leverage. So, what's the point here to talk negative about this system?

marco_mmbiz posted:
The problem with 'copy trading' is that if you want to copy trades from another very successfull trader and account you'd need to have the exact same account (same broker, same lot-sizes, same leverage, same capital/equity) and mindset. I guess most of the copy traders don't have it. For example: a signal provider has an account with 20k and is using 0.2lot for each trade and on longterm (so, there might be negative or positive swaps), you can't trade on your (maybe even different broker) account with the same stuff if your account is only 2k. Because with a 2k account you'd have to use 0.02lot instead of 0.2lot. That's why most copy traders crashing their own accounts while professional traders never lose (with their huge accounts).

And this system here I don't see crashing. It's still updated by MyFXbook and numbers seem to be all fine. He's using a regulated broker and even low leverage. So, what's the point here to talk negative about this system?

Its not about Frero - he's doing fine.

Also, its obviously understood about account size to get correct ratio of lots.

I dont agree with having to trade with same broker

Anyways - this conversation doesnt belong in this thread.

So back to Frero.

I agree with marco_mmbiz most of the points.

Frero system is good to me.

Trading is hard. When you don't know how to do the trading, you have the doubt in anyone, anything you interact with because it seems things go against you everywhere.

I used to think brokers manipulate price right after I enter a trade. I stop that thinking after be able to verify the price move in different accounts I have. Our trades are too small to attract them to do that.

Same here, the fee per month in SS is too small to attract SS to work with brokers to get your fee.

I stopped one of my signal because of this tiny fee on my large account there. Not worth it, unless I have a lot of subscribers. But then I will want to keep that account in good shape to keep the subscribers. Not fail it purposely like you suggest, JForex78.

Good trading to everyone.

Wassel on Fire!!!

He shows how well he can trade. very good performance as I think !!! He is a professional Trader and so he behaves. They should stop talking badly. Yesterday and today very good performance.

@marco_mmbiz
You are right - when balance is low compared to signal provider and lots should be less than 0.01 this happens. There will be different risk if ratio between balances and lots sizes of the two accounts are not equal. If they are - everything is fine. Signalstart even shows the recommended minimum balance to avoid it. I mostly copy signals with different broker and everything is fine. Also leverage is not a problem if yours is bigger than the signal (the opposite is).

tk51 posted:
Wassel on Fire!!!

He shows how well he can trade. very good performance as I think !!! He is a professional Trader and so he behaves. They should stop talking badly. Yesterday and today very good performance.

Very true! The topic recently become about copying and signals in general, nothing against Wassel.

Yes, noefekts, we have been talking a lot about copying and signals in general, exchanging useful information. We found each other because we have something in common—we are all copying Frero—and now that we have found each other, we have broadened the discussion. I really value this group. If people were posting on music or politics, I would agree that would be off-topic for this thread (even though both are of interest to me). But I think the posts on copying and trading in general or even other signals is fine. So far, you are the only one for whom it is a problem. Wassel hasn't complained.

As far as Frero goes, I am glad to see 16 old trades which were racking up huge swap fees closed with very small net losses, which overtaken by the huge profits from other trades closed in the last few days. As soon as all trades are closed, I plan to switch from the signal to the MAM, which I hope Wassel will continue to run for a long time.

i have only had 2/3 risk since september (example: 5000K =, 003 lot)

 thanks to Wassel and the Frero System

(currently 17% DD)

See

I have made money with Wassel/Frero so I am happy. Drawdowns can happen and they did happen but with my time of entry, fortunately it was only 25%. I hope he continues to manage accounts in professional manner, as he is definitely a pro and I'm very grateful to have my account managed with him!!

@CuongVC

Thanks for your contributions. It's great to hear from someone who has actually run a signal.

Just trading for myself, I have had a lot of doubts, e.g., whether to close a trade or let it run. The pressure must be greater when you have followers depending on you to make the right decision.

aranciata posted:
@CuongVC

Thanks for your contributions. It's great to hear from someone who has actually run a signal.

Just trading for myself, I have had a lot of doubts, e.g., whether to close a trade or let it run. The pressure must be greater when you have followers depending on you to make the right decision.

It is easy to have a signal there. The thing is you have to keep it nicely and the fee have to be low enough to attract people to subscribe.

The set-up like that is good for:

1/ Profitable traders with small capital so they the earning from subscribers' fee is meaningful to them.
2/ Profitable traders want to reach out to investors.
3/ Not really a profitable traders but who ever happen to have a few months of profitable account to publish there to get extra income. He/she may have many accounts, he/she only post the one that have been profitable for a few months, not sure about after that (Maximus is an example).
4/ Investors: if you know how to find great signals then this is the best group that can have greatest benefit from SS.


The one that can trade and can have large enough fund to trade don't need to provide signals.

CuongVC