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Islam and Trading
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togr

Biedrs kopš Feb 22, 2011  3706 ieraksti vontogr (togr) Dec 04 2017 at 15:48
gbpusdg posted:
Islam and trading:

Aim here is to discuss the legitmacy of 'trading' forex or any other instrument for short-term gain.

My understanding is as below:

Any form of 'trading', where there is zero intention of taking delivery or using the FX proceeds for valid commercial purposes is considered HARAAM.

Trading forex where there is a legitimate need for different FX currencies, ie. going on holiday, need to send money abroad, buying items from abroad, all these are valid and legitimate reasons for exchanging one currency for another.

Where there is zero intention of taking delivery, where the only objective is to try and guess if a currency will rise/fall, is considered gambling and is strictly forbidden in Islam.

This applies to stocks as well as stocks or any other trading.

Islam is about responsible ownership and most short-term traders do not care about responsible ownership, they are just worried about short-term price movements.

Also, shorting something you do not own, is strictly not allowed in Islam ie. if you have a US$ account and you sell dollars for CHF, this is allowed provided you own the actual number of US$'s. However you cannot sell CHF for US$'s as you do not own any CHF.

Also, trading on margin is strictly not allowed. You cannot buy/sell in a greater amount that what you have. That is why, even in valid commercial transactions, if you have only $500, you can only trade $500, ie a leverage of 1:1. Anything trading leverage of greater than 1 is strictly forbidden.

ALL swap points are Haraam, whether it's receiving or paying.

All Gambling is strictly Haraam.

Lying about past performances is definitely a sin and any earnings based upon lies and gambling is strictly not allowed and is Haraam. (so all signal providers who lie about their past - be aware)

Thoughts people.

My though: if you are right a lot of people ends up in hell.

I like what I trade, I trade what I like
gbpusdg

Biedrs kopš Sep 19, 2017  35 ieraksti gbpusdg Dec 05 2017 at 08:13
togr posted:
gbpusdg posted:
Islam and trading:

Aim here is to discuss the legitmacy of 'trading' forex or any other instrument for short-term gain.

My understanding is as below:

Any form of 'trading', where there is zero intention of taking delivery or using the FX proceeds for valid commercial purposes is considered HARAAM.

Trading forex where there is a legitimate need for different FX currencies, ie. going on holiday, need to send money abroad, buying items from abroad, all these are valid and legitimate reasons for exchanging one currency for another.

Where there is zero intention of taking delivery, where the only objective is to try and guess if a currency will rise/fall, is considered gambling and is strictly forbidden in Islam.

This applies to stocks as well as stocks or any other trading.

Islam is about responsible ownership and most short-term traders do not care about responsible ownership, they are just worried about short-term price movements.

Also, shorting something you do not own, is strictly not allowed in Islam ie. if you have a US$ account and you sell dollars for CHF, this is allowed provided you own the actual number of US$'s. However you cannot sell CHF for US$'s as you do not own any CHF.

Also, trading on margin is strictly not allowed. You cannot buy/sell in a greater amount that what you have. That is why, even in valid commercial transactions, if you have only $500, you can only trade $500, ie a leverage of 1:1. Anything trading leverage of greater than 1 is strictly forbidden.

ALL swap points are Haraam, whether it's receiving or paying.

All Gambling is strictly Haraam.

Lying about past performances is definitely a sin and any earnings based upon lies and gambling is strictly not allowed and is Haraam. (so all signal providers who lie about their past - be aware)

Thoughts people.

My though: if you are right a lot of people ends up in hell.



Hi Vontogr,

Well, depends if you have enough good credits to offset the bad ones twist evil

But I set this up for certain (Muslim) scammers who use the name of God to espouse how honest and good they are but in rel life, were running near scam like activities on here ie. hiding the truth about many blown accounts, trading demo, creating fake accounts to give themselves good reviews etc etc.

But hopefully the thread can serves another purpose too - one of information.

G

gbpusdg

Biedrs kopš Sep 19, 2017  35 ieraksti gbpusdg Dec 05 2017 at 08:14
L3CAP posted:
@gbpusdg 'The point of this thread is therefore to have a conversation and prove (or not) through established Islamic rules and regulations that the above three points are definitely not allowed (or allowed).'

Maybe you would like to include a Muslim Scholar or Cleric in the thread to help answer your question? I doubt anyone else will be able to give a satisfactory answer.


Hi L3CAP,

I have done research and have come to the conclusions that I have based on Scholarly articles across the net.

I was wondering if any Muslim who disagrees with what I have stated and thinks otherwise.

So far, on here (or anywhere else) I have yet to find anyone who does disagree or has evidence to the contrary.

It's just all to gather thoughts and proofs.

There are many (Muslims) who will not care but am after those who do care.

All the best.



Mrdegorbi

Biedrs kopš May 17, 2011  19 ieraksti Mrdegorbi Dec 05 2017 at 14:57 (labots Dec 05 2017 at 14:59 )
My opinion...
Religion is as necessary for man as a bicycle for fish...
Any religion...

Lack of patience is one of the most important reasons of forex traders failure
Adribaasmet

Biedrs kopš Aug 27, 2017  151 ieraksti Adribaasmet Dec 05 2017 at 15:37
gbpusdg posted:
brakeboy posted:
gbpusdg posted:
1 - Trading on Margin (not allowed in Islam)
2 - Going Short (not allowed in Islam)
3 - Short-term (day) trading (Not considered responsible ownership - no intention to take delivery).


SIMPLE SOLUTION:

DON'T TRADE ON MARGIN

DON'T GO SHORT

DON'T DAY TRADE

/THREAD



Hi BrakeBoy,

Thank you for your post.

Unfortunately it is not as simple as you state.

There are many Muslim (on here) who do trade on margin, who do go short, and who do day trade and they believe there is nothing wrong with it and that it is permissible.

The point of this thread is therefore to have a conversation and prove (or not) through established Islamic rules and regulations that the above three points are definitely not allowed (or allowed).

All the best.




I have also seen, so many religious people are doing Forex trading!

togr

Biedrs kopš Feb 22, 2011  3706 ieraksti vontogr (togr) Dec 05 2017 at 15:38
gbpusdg posted:
togr posted:
gbpusdg posted:
Islam and trading:

Aim here is to discuss the legitmacy of 'trading' forex or any other instrument for short-term gain.

My understanding is as below:

Any form of 'trading', where there is zero intention of taking delivery or using the FX proceeds for valid commercial purposes is considered HARAAM.

Trading forex where there is a legitimate need for different FX currencies, ie. going on holiday, need to send money abroad, buying items from abroad, all these are valid and legitimate reasons for exchanging one currency for another.

Where there is zero intention of taking delivery, where the only objective is to try and guess if a currency will rise/fall, is considered gambling and is strictly forbidden in Islam.

This applies to stocks as well as stocks or any other trading.

Islam is about responsible ownership and most short-term traders do not care about responsible ownership, they are just worried about short-term price movements.

Also, shorting something you do not own, is strictly not allowed in Islam ie. if you have a US$ account and you sell dollars for CHF, this is allowed provided you own the actual number of US$'s. However you cannot sell CHF for US$'s as you do not own any CHF.

Also, trading on margin is strictly not allowed. You cannot buy/sell in a greater amount that what you have. That is why, even in valid commercial transactions, if you have only $500, you can only trade $500, ie a leverage of 1:1. Anything trading leverage of greater than 1 is strictly forbidden.

ALL swap points are Haraam, whether it's receiving or paying.

All Gambling is strictly Haraam.

Lying about past performances is definitely a sin and any earnings based upon lies and gambling is strictly not allowed and is Haraam. (so all signal providers who lie about their past - be aware)

Thoughts people.

My though: if you are right a lot of people ends up in hell.



Hi Vontogr,

Well, depends if you have enough good credits to offset the bad ones twist evil

But I set this up for certain (Muslim) scammers who use the name of God to espouse how honest and good they are but in rel life, were running near scam like activities on here ie. hiding the truth about many blown accounts, trading demo, creating fake accounts to give themselves good reviews etc etc.

But hopefully the thread can serves another purpose too - one of information.

G


Now now excatly what do you mean. These guys have nothing to offer but say god name in every sentence.

I like what I trade, I trade what I like
moizhassan

Biedrs kopš Sep 22, 2017  2 ieraksti moizhassan Dec 05 2017 at 15:48
Actually Forex isn't Haraam. Using the logic which is used above then investing in any business or starting business would be haraam as the investor doesn't know if his business will give him profit or loss but invests or starts the new business because he thinks it will be profitable for him.

togr

Biedrs kopš Feb 22, 2011  3706 ieraksti vontogr (togr) Dec 05 2017 at 15:51
gbpusdg posted:
togr posted:
gbpusdg posted:
Islam and trading:

Aim here is to discuss the legitmacy of 'trading' forex or any other instrument for short-term gain.

My understanding is as below:

Any form of 'trading', where there is zero intention of taking delivery or using the FX proceeds for valid commercial purposes is considered HARAAM.

Trading forex where there is a legitimate need for different FX currencies, ie. going on holiday, need to send money abroad, buying items from abroad, all these are valid and legitimate reasons for exchanging one currency for another.

Where there is zero intention of taking delivery, where the only objective is to try and guess if a currency will rise/fall, is considered gambling and is strictly forbidden in Islam.

This applies to stocks as well as stocks or any other trading.

Islam is about responsible ownership and most short-term traders do not care about responsible ownership, they are just worried about short-term price movements.

Also, shorting something you do not own, is strictly not allowed in Islam ie. if you have a US$ account and you sell dollars for CHF, this is allowed provided you own the actual number of US$'s. However you cannot sell CHF for US$'s as you do not own any CHF.

Also, trading on margin is strictly not allowed. You cannot buy/sell in a greater amount that what you have. That is why, even in valid commercial transactions, if you have only $500, you can only trade $500, ie a leverage of 1:1. Anything trading leverage of greater than 1 is strictly forbidden.

ALL swap points are Haraam, whether it's receiving or paying.

All Gambling is strictly Haraam.

Lying about past performances is definitely a sin and any earnings based upon lies and gambling is strictly not allowed and is Haraam. (so all signal providers who lie about their past - be aware)

Thoughts people.

My though: if you are right a lot of people ends up in hell.



Hi Vontogr,

Well, depends if you have enough good credits to offset the bad ones twist evil

But I set this up for certain (Muslim) scammers who use the name of God to espouse how honest and good they are but in rel life, were running near scam like activities on here ie. hiding the truth about many blown accounts, trading demo, creating fake accounts to give themselves good reviews etc etc.

But hopefully the thread can serves another purpose too - one of information.

G


Just out of curiosity
can you go to 'paradise' even if you made bad things?

I like what I trade, I trade what I like
AmDiab

Biedrs kopš Apr 18, 2017  256 ieraksti AmDiab Dec 05 2017 at 17:37
moizhassan posted:
Actually Forex isn't Haraam. Using the logic which is used above then investing in any business or starting business would be haraam as the investor doesn't know if his business will give him profit or loss but invests or starts the new business because he thinks it will be profitable for him.


It’s logical! Agree with your opinion!

gbpusdg

Biedrs kopš Sep 19, 2017  35 ieraksti gbpusdg Dec 06 2017 at 07:40
Mrdegorbi posted:
My opinion...
Religion is as necessary for man as a bicycle for fish...
Any religion...


Hi Mrdegorbi,

Thank you for replying.

But this topic is not about whether religion is true or not - if you do not believe, then no problem, this topic is not for you.

It is about whether the rules of short-term trading are applicable to Muslims.

Thank you

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