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Any Fielding Financial Robot (FFR) Traders?
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davidjellis

Member Since Jan 22, 2011  17 posts David (davidjellis) Jan 26 2011 at 01:55
Hi all,

I have just started using the FFR Expert Adviser, and went 'live' trading this week. Not too good a start though as I got hit by the sudden and shock fall of the GBP following the negative UK GDP announcement this morning. Hit my drawdown at 15% on only my second day of trading. I expect the shock to the markets affected many traders.

Anyone out there using FFR wish to share their trading experiences?

Happy Tradings!

David.

lizwhitenlp

Member Since Jan 22, 2011  1 posts Elizabeth White (lizwhitenlp) Jan 29 2011 at 16:20
Hi David

Me too only I managed to lose 25% and it was a big shock as I had been ambling along gently for almost three weeks and was almost going to make the monthly payment to the FFR! I lost $1100 so I was upset but I've got over it and have to accept that's a risk we take every day we trade.

I don't quite know what I'm doing yet but am slowly learning more and more and would like to swap info and strategies with you.

Best wishes

Liz

Elizabeth White

kay3tj

Member Since Mar 16, 2011  1 posts kay3tj Mar 16 2011 at 10:18
Hello Liz and David,

I have been thinking about purchasing this product and would appreciate any feedback from your experiences with it to help me make a decision.

Many thanks,

Tim

davidjellis

Member Since Jan 22, 2011  17 posts David (davidjellis) Mar 24 2011 at 02:15
I have sent you a message Tim with some information and my experiences, so have a read and drop me a reply!
Cheers,
David.

James_Bond

Member Since Jan 14, 2010  555 posts James_Bond Mar 28 2011 at 09:34

kay3tj posted:
    Hello Liz and David,

I have been thinking about purchasing this product and would appreciate any feedback from your experiences with it to help me make a decision.

Many thanks,

Tim


What's to think about? David lost 15% in 2 days and Elizabeth lost 25% in 3 weeks. I think it gives you the answer you're looking for.

davidjellis

Member Since Jan 22, 2011  17 posts David (davidjellis) Mar 28 2011 at 23:24
To be fair, Wilkinson, those losses were very early on, not just for us, but also for the robot itself. The product was launched late last year, and although Gill had learned a lot from trading and experimenting with her own money for a year, very occasionally something comes along that provides a learning experience...in the case of our losses it was the shock announcement on 25 January that the UK economy had gone back into negative growth, taking the markets and economists completely by surprise.

There are always going to be odd spikes in the markets like that, the problem was that Gill had never seen anything like it in her year's trading, as the Pound fell rapidly over a very short period of time, and so the settings myself and Liz were using had not been designed to accommodate such a currency pattern. Subsequently the robot settings have been refined, and lessons learnt, by both us and Gill. This has enabled new users of the robot to gain from that experience, indeed my own position is moving quickly towards recovering from that loss, and will soon be into profits.

So, although I agree totally that the start Liz and I made would not inspire confidence in any system, the results seen recently, and the learning from that market shock has enabled all FFR traders to be much more confident that risk of losses like the ones we suffered from are very much minimised, and my accounts are currently trading profitably, easily covering the monthly FFR fees, which I didn't expect to be doing until at least six months of trading.

James_Bond

Member Since Jan 14, 2010  555 posts James_Bond Mar 29 2011 at 09:06 (edited Mar 29 2011 at 09:07 )
davidjellis posted:
    To be fair, Wilkinson, those losses were very early on, not just for us, but also for the robot itself. The product was launched late last year, and although Gill had learned a lot from trading and experimenting with her own money for a year, very occasionally something comes along that provides a learning experience...in the case of our losses it was the shock announcement on 25 January that the UK economy had gone back into negative growth, taking the markets and economists completely by surprise.

There are always going to be odd spikes in the markets like that, the problem was that Gill had never seen anything like it in her year's trading, as the Pound fell rapidly over a very short period of time, and so the settings myself and Liz were using had not been designed to accommodate such a currency pattern. Subsequently the robot settings have been refined, and lessons learnt, by both us and Gill. This has enabled new users of the robot to gain from that experience, indeed my own position is moving quickly towards recovering from that loss, and will soon be into profits.

So, although I agree totally that the start Liz and I made would not inspire confidence in any system, the results seen recently, and the learning from that market shock has enabled all FFR traders to be much more confident that risk of losses like the ones we suffered from are very much minimised, and my accounts are currently trading profitably, easily covering the monthly FFR fees, which I didn't expect to be doing until at least six months of trading.


I'm not ruling out the robot and do agree with you, however based on your experience it's clearly visible that you're over leveraged as those losses are too high for such a short period of time.

Were you using the default recommended settings for trade sizes, or did you tweaked them a bit which led to the high losses?

davidjellis

Member Since Jan 22, 2011  17 posts David (davidjellis) Mar 29 2011 at 20:34
I have never used any other robots so I am unsure how many of them work...FFR works by (and I believe the technical term for this is) averaging into position, where the robot continues to double up lot sizes on a run of trades going in the wrong direction, so that when the currency pairing bounces back the profits on the larger, more recent, trades outweighs the losses on the earlier, smaller, trades, and you make a net profit.

What caused our losses was the 'drawdown %', which is basically the % of our funds we are prepared to risk at one time. In the normal cycle of ups and downs of the currency pairings, the averaging method works effectively, but that approach is more riskier where there is a rapid fall or rise of one currency against the other. In that scenario (which is what happened on 25 January) the robot will double up on lot sizes quickly until either (a) the currency turns around again; or (b) you hit your drawdown, and when (b) happens (which is the risk level set by the user) all the open trades are closed (at a loss), which is why our losses were significant.

Experience has shown us (and Gill) that for the robot to work effectively in those kind of extreme conditions (which are unusual), you need to have your drawdown set high enough to give the currency a chance to bounce back, so for those that had set a high drawdown percentage they finished 25 January with small surpluses. Both myself and Liz lost money as, compared to the lot sizes we were using, the drawdown was set too low and the currency pairing didn't get the chance to 'ride it out'.

I will hold my hand up and say that the reason for my loss was that I had misunderstood the drawdown % issue, and in doing so had set my drawdown far too small, which is why it got hit. At that time Gill herself was still learning what level of drawdown was the optimum to go for, but the events of 25 January had even caught her out. Since then her recommended settings have involved much higher drawdown percentages, albeit with the high risk nature of Forex trading, there is always a risk of losing your money.

I hope that explains why we lost money, but also that in learning these lessons, the robot settings have now become more refined, enabling the user to avoid the typically volatile days in the mid-month, for example, and Gill's guidance has improved the performance of the trades significantly. Forex will always be risky, but the harsh lessons me and Liz experienced has led to a much more reliable performance with a better understanding of how to ride out volatllity in the markets.

James_Bond

Member Since Jan 14, 2010  555 posts James_Bond Mar 30 2011 at 09:53

davidjellis posted:
  the robot continues to double up lot sizes on a run of trades going in the wrong direction, so that when the currency pairing bounces back the profits on the larger, more recent, trades outweighs the losses on the earlier, smaller, trades, and you make a net profit.


So basically it's a martingale system - I would avoid using such a system. It will work well in ranging markets, however in trending ones it won't survive.

<quote=davidjellis>
you need to have your drawdown set high enough to give the currency a chance to bounce back


How can you be sure it will bounce back? And in which point? This is very risky trading and goes against the basic rule of letting your profits go long, and cutting your losses short.

ZENERGY

Member Since Mar 30, 2011  1 posts ZENERGY Mar 30 2011 at 10:54
i bought the system back in october 2010 and quickly realised it was very similar to other ea products, just that there was a hefty price , very high subscription etc. and gill was clearly not as experienced as the advertising made out. she says she has made all the mistakes so we dont have to lose, she has cracked it . i quickly got a refund ! if i had traded the month i joined my money would have been wiped out. what is the difference between midas and ffr ? as they are run by the same people.

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