What makes one a Professional Trader?

MoneyZilla posted:

fxinvesta posted:
To be a professional trader, you need to live on trading.
if you have 5k, buy a TV, do not try to invest.

fxinvesta, you are absolutely right on that one.

during the last two years I have lost about -130k on forex, chasing the dream of making money with just 10k accounts. meanwhile I have built a very profitable, sort of stop strategy, which works one and only with accounts larger than 300k. I would even recommend a min of 1 mil. Then, I realized I do not have that kind of money, to trade it. I was very very disappointed and still is, a little. That is how forex works. One needs a shitload of money to trade with little to no anxiety.

Then, few weeks before, I figured out that the DD that was causing my losses (due to margin calls mostly), can be used in my benefit, instead. To make the story short, I am now building a guardian strategy, that guards the major trend strategy, by reducing the DD of the major strategy with over 80% sometimes. And not only that. It gives me the opportunity to cash in the saved 80% DD as an unexpected profit, on the top of the profit of the major strategy.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you... learn.

A system should work with any amount of money, the problem is that work pay off.
If your back testing shows that in the worst situation, must withstand 300 pips against (it's just a number to understand), you must adjust your money management, not more than 50% of the account.
That will give you maximum exposure, if that exposure is very low, you need more money, otherwise you worked 15 hours a day for a few dollars ....
I think an acceptable return is 20% per year.
If you invest 10k, you will earn 2 K in a year, with that money you can not afford even your Internet connection ...
You've got one option, to force the system, which will take you, no doubt, to the bankruptcy.
Nobody tries to be a doctor without going to college, no one tries to put a restaurant with no money, but incredibly, is full of fools, who think they can be traders, by the grace of God ...
And the market feeds on them ....

fxinvesta posted:


A system should work with any amount of money, the problem is that work pay off.
If your back testing shows that in the worst situation, must withstand 300 pips against (it's just a number to understand), you must adjust your money management, not more than 50% of the account.
That will give you maximum exposure, if that exposure is very low, you need more money, otherwise you worked 15 hours a day for a few dollars ....
I think an acceptable return is 20% per year.
If you invest 10k, you will earn 2 K in a year, with that money you can not afford even your Internet connection ...
You've got one option, to force the system, which will take you, no doubt, to the bankruptcy.
Nobody tries to be a doctor without going to college, no one tries to put a restaurant with no money, but incredibly, is full of fools, who think they can be traders, by the grace of God ...
And the market feeds on them ....

Agreed that a system should be able to work with any amount of money. Not agreeing that a person must have x minimum otherwise it is just a hobby. I have a job, I am also working hard on my system, I don't merely see it as a hobby, it is my business.
At the moment it is supplementing my income. I hope to someday have enough investors in my system to live off the % of profit earned.

trendfollowers posted:

fxinvesta posted:


A system should work with any amount of money, the problem is that work pay off.
If your back testing shows that in the worst situation, must withstand 300 pips against (it's just a number to understand), you must adjust your money management, not more than 50% of the account.
That will give you maximum exposure, if that exposure is very low, you need more money, otherwise you worked 15 hours a day for a few dollars ....
I think an acceptable return is 20% per year.
If you invest 10k, you will earn 2 K in a year, with that money you can not afford even your Internet connection ...
You've got one option, to force the system, which will take you, no doubt, to the bankruptcy.
Nobody tries to be a doctor without going to college, no one tries to put a restaurant with no money, but incredibly, is full of fools, who think they can be traders, by the grace of God ...
And the market feeds on them ....

Agreed that a system should be able to work with any amount of money. Not agreeing that a person must have x minimum otherwise it is just a hobby. I have a job, I am also working hard on my system, I don't merely see it as a hobby, it is my business.
At the moment it is supplementing my income. I hope to someday have enough investors in my system to live off the % of profit earned.

By definition, a hobby is an activity that you do in your free time.
It's what you say you do for now, I wish you success for the future.
Hard work, done with passion, always give good results

fxinvesta posted:
A system should work with any amount of money, the problem is that work pay off./quote]

I admire FXInvesta achievements, but I kind disagree with that statement. It is like putting ANY amount of fuel in a car and getting ANYWHERE you like? Is it so? We all are aware that this is not how any type of fuel works, don't we?

It you put 6 liter of petrol and want to go 250 km on a 2015 petrol S-class, that might, and probably will, never happen... It is exactly the same in forex trading. Depending on your fuel (account balance), you will or will not achieve your destination goals.

The normal profit in forex is about 1/1000 to 1/100 of the account balance. Everything else is OVERTRADING with a super high risk involved. In a long run, only few, Magicians I call them, can eventually escape the inevitable crash. The rest of us, will crash. So far, the history proves me right.

If everyone else, except the super lucky and/or super smart Magicians, sticks in between 1/1000 to 1/500 profit target, there will be no problems whatsoever, till the end of time... I think that is valid for ALL trading strategies, regardless of how good or less good they are.

MoneyZilla posted:

fxinvesta posted:
A system should work with any amount of money, the problem is that work pay off./quote]

I admire FXInvesta achievements, but I kind disagree with that statement. It is like putting ANY amount of fuel in a car and getting ANYWHERE you like? Is it so? We all are aware that this is not how any type of fuel works, don't we?

It you put 6 liter of petrol and want to go 250 km on a 2015 petrol S-class, that might, and probably will, never happen... It is exactly the same in forex trading. Depending on your fuel (account balance), you will or will not achieve your destination goals.

The normal profit in forex is about 1/1000 to 1/100 of the account balance. Everything else is OVERTRADING with a super high risk involved. In a long run, only few, Magicians I call them, can eventually escape the inevitable crash. The rest of us, will crash. So far, the history proves me right.

If everyone else, except the super lucky and/or super smart Magicians, sticks in between 1/1000 to 1/500 profit target, there will be no problems whatsoever, till the end of time... I think that is valid for ALL trading strategies, regardless of how good or less good they are.

exactly, your car consumes always the same.
Your system will always give the same.
You can not travel 250 km with 5 liters of fuel, in the same way that you can not do trading with 5k.
In both situations you stay stuck on the road.
the surprising thing is that many people try to do that ... talk about 1/1000, overtrading, risk and exposure, it is something else, much more technical and complicated.
If you do trading with your own money, or you are a money manager, it's the same, you have to make money.
And in this world in which we live, there is no way to make money without risk, if you do not want to take risks, get a job, someone else will take risks, and you, a monthly salary.

Zawiri posted:
A number of times i've seen comments on this site alluding that professional traders dont make their statements public; some talk on no solicitation for funds on such forums; some on the need for one to have more than 100 trades and so forth. But what would make one be considered to be Professional coz at some point many aspire to be! Share you thoughts here.

Discipline
Good trading plan
No being greedy
Accepting that you dont not more that you do

Thats it.

Easy to specify, hard to accomplish.

togr posted:

Zawiri posted:
A number of times i've seen comments on this site alluding that professional traders dont make their statements public; some talk on no solicitation for funds on such forums; some on the need for one to have more than 100 trades and so forth. But what would make one be considered to be Professional coz at some point many aspire to be! Share you thoughts here.

Discipline
Good trading plan
No being greedy
Accepting that you dont not more that you do

Thats it.

Easy to specify, hard to accomplish.

Here we are giving opinions, and not seeking work.
As I said several times, when an investor is interested, he not only must see statements, investor must have the pass to see everything.
I do not think that if you participate in a forum of opinion on heart diseases, someone asks you to send your electrocardiogram ...
This only happens in trading, people think they have the right to demand things, as if they were investing clients ...
Crazy right?

I have seen, a number of Forex traders are involved with Price Action trading strategy! In addition, the basic terms and conditions of PA trading strategy are available here and there! The main identification of a pro trader is their consistency! Yes they are able to earn regular money here whatever complicated session it is! In addition, I am also with PA trading strategy!

AniLorak posted:
I have seen, a number of Forex traders are involved with Price Action trading strategy! In addition, the basic terms and conditions of PA trading strategy are available here and there! The main identification of a pro trader is their consistency! Yes they are able to earn regular money here whatever complicated session it is! In addition, I am also with PA trading strategy!

Whatever trading strategy you are using, pro traders have similarity! Like, they are not aggressive, they always trade with money management as well as risk management policies! They maintain their trading journal with enough disciplines!

fxdimarion posted:
Consistent profit for at least one year, with low draw downs on a real account of course.

I agree with you! Really, consistency is a key point here! I see, many traders were starting their trading career with a decent monthly percentage, but now they already left Forex! So, making profit is easy here, but we have to repeat it regularly!

fxdimarion posted:
Consistent profit for at least one year, with low draw downs on a real account of course.

Exactly, long time good trading result is the main parameter! Besides, demo trading result and live trading result is not same; a good opinion indeed.

fxdimarion posted:
Consistent profit for at least one year, with low draw downs on a real account of course.

That’s the point! Pro traders can make regular money from this financial market!

Hi guys,
So what d'you think how much percent they increase their balance regularly in a month?, is there max/min level of the percentage?😎

5-10% I reckon. Any more than that would unrealistic

Snorre posted:
5-10% I reckon. Any more than that would unrealistic

Agree with that for regular trading.
In case you are using arbitrage or news trading auto-clicks and etc. this percentage might go seriously up :)

It does not matter how much the trader earns. The important thing is that it is stable. Let it be 1% per week, but for 5 years, than 30% per day, but the next day it will all lose.

BaldoN posted:

Snorre posted:
5-10% I reckon. Any more than that would unrealistic

Agree with that for regular trading.
In case you are using arbitrage or news trading auto-clicks and etc. this percentage might go seriously up :)

But maybe also the risk will go up with these techniques?

I agree that a professional trader must have a permanent and stable growth on a real trading account. But even professionals have mistakes and there can be big drawdown. From this, no one has immunity. None trading strategy can be 100% surefire and profitable for a long time. Therefore, professionalism is to change your strategy on time and not continue to lose money.

Its interesting that everyone here believes that he's right.
Perhaps it is.
Everyone is right and wrong at the same time.
Constancy is an uncountable concept. A year of stability? Why a year?
As everyone knows, the market becomes different over the years. What worked a year might suddenly stop working.
A small drawdown? the maximum is that he observes money management. But it has nothing with professionalism. Only numbers.
The psychological factor at the current moment is not the last criterion.

I believe the pro is someone who loses and learns on falls, he is the one who can quickly adapt to the market changeability. The permanence is different for any of us, even 4 months is already a good trading.