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ESMA and its implication

vontogr (togr)
Aug 16 2018 at 09:50
게시물4862
TeoJonas posted:

Nope. ESMA is disaster for brokers.
I have a system that trades a lot with 4k deposit. So broker made like $300 just on spreads from trading. Now I have to either decrease my trading activity 20x times or leave the broker.Agree with and i can understand it but I don't understand why ESMA is choking traders.
The whole European Union is about regulation.
Regulation kills the businesses and create working places for bureaucracy
I often say they will regulate so long there will be nothing left to regulate :)
NotyaBusiness
Aug 16 2018 at 10:55
게시물19
TiffanyK posted:
'Lowering the margin has nothing to do with protecting the little trader. It's a way to drive them away from trading (with a regulated broker).'

Plus500 had 247,000 new depositors only last year. That broker has an over 80% of their clients lose money, which means nearly 200,000 of those new clients may have lost their money. And I believe other brokers, like Avatrade had similar stats.

So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.

The man who wants nothing is invincible.
Pipperidge
Aug 16 2018 at 10:59
게시물13
togr posted:
TeoJonas posted:

Nope. ESMA is disaster for brokers.
I have a system that trades a lot with 4k deposit. So broker made like $300 just on spreads from trading. Now I have to either decrease my trading activity 20x times or leave the broker.
Agree with and i can understand it but I don't understand why ESMA is choking traders.

The whole European Union is about regulation.
Regulation kills the businesses and create working places for bureaucracy
I often say they will regulate so long there will be nothing left to regulate :)
Kinda reminds me of Orwell's 1984 in the making.
We'll regulate everything, including your thoughts.

Personally, I'm not against having some kind of regulation... as long as it's properly set and does not leave obvious loopholes in place like the fact that the rules apply only to EU regulated brokers.
Everything should be done in moderation. Anything brought to the extremes is potentially dangerous and harmful.
vontogr (togr)
Aug 17 2018 at 08:43
게시물4862
NotyaBusiness posted:
TiffanyK posted:
'Lowering the margin has nothing to do with protecting the little trader. It's a way to drive them away from trading (with a regulated broker).'

Plus500 had 247,000 new depositors only last year. That broker has an over 80% of their clients lose money, which means nearly 200,000 of those new clients may have lost their money. And I believe other brokers, like Avatrade had similar stats.

So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.


Plus500 is bullshit platform
Even Though I am grateful to them to bring me to Forex
niceGLer
Aug 17 2018 at 09:28
게시물169
NotyaBusiness posted:

So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.


Why not?! $1k is plenty of money! One won't get stable income immediately, but within a couple of years it is possible to support oneself with that amount of deposits - even with a leverage of 30. All it takes is time, and one needs to be sitting glued in front of his monitor.. So to say, one should pick up a working short term strategy.
vontogr (togr)
Aug 19 2018 at 07:01
게시물4862
niceGLer posted:
NotyaBusiness posted:

So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.


Why not?! $1k is plenty of money! One won't get stable income immediately, but within a couple of years it is possible to support oneself with that amount of deposits - even with a leverage of 30. All it takes is time, and one needs to be sitting glued in front of his monitor.. So to say, one should pick up a working short term strategy.

With high leverage you were able to make like 5-10% month on 1,000 deposit.
With current leverage it is not possible. You can be profitable but it will be less than percent a month.
PrincetonBoy
Aug 19 2018 at 07:22
게시물4
It will be pretty tough to make some serious cash with only a $1k account but maybe that it the point. ESMA now makes people think that Forex trading is not a get rich quick scheme but something that can make a small bit of cash on the side and maybe , just maybe can make a bit more.
mazzeltof
Aug 19 2018 at 07:37
게시물11
NotyaBusiness posted:

So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.

Maybe from now we will also be freed from all those people that claim that 5% a month isn't even worth the effort because they have way higher profit. We all know those '10k to 1M within 1 year' topics right? The most hilarious ones are the ones in wich those masterminds ask for funding to get started.

People do ask me about trading. I always tell them that bigshots like Warren Buffet earn 15% evrey year so in case you are also quite good 10% would be awesome. That 10% will take a lot of effort and time. Now let's say you spend 10 ours a week on fx. That is 500 hours a year. In case you'd like 10 euro per our wich is not a lot in western Europe where I come from you need to deposit 50k. In case you have 10k only to spare work some saturdays and stop wondering about fx.

Those 'get rich fast' accounts that all blow will be gone.

In some way it is a pity because the money I earn has to come from a source and that source is now quite a bit dried up.

And about ESMA: I didn't even notice the new 'restrictions'
niceGLer
Aug 20 2018 at 07:33
게시물169
mazzeltof posted:
[
People do ask me about trading. I always tell them that bigshots like Warren Buffet earn 15% evrey year so in case you are also quite good 10% would be awesome. That 10% will take a lot of effort and time. Now let's say you spend 10 ours a week on fx. That is 500 hours a year. In case you'd like 10 euro per our wich is not a lot in western Europe where I come from you need to deposit 50k. In case you have 10k only to spare work some saturdays and stop wondering about fx.

Those 'get rich fast' accounts that all blow will be gone.

In some way it is a pity because the money I earn has to come from a source and that source is now quite a bit dried up.

And about ESMA: I didn't even notice the new 'restrictions'

Warren Buffet and the other guys are a bit different, since they hardly use any leverage at all. With that capital it is about absolute gains and the gain percentage, or CAGR is somewhat secondary, if it only beats the inflation. If one doesn't have enough capital it becomes more a question of monthly gain percentage. Even with $50 one can practice the process (not becoming rich!).

I think it is possible in current conditions to reach that %10-%20 monthly gains - even with the maximum leverage of 30 (which is still plenty!).
Pipperidge
Aug 20 2018 at 07:33
게시물13
NotyaBusiness posted:
TiffanyK posted:
'Lowering the margin has nothing to do with protecting the little trader. It's a way to drive them away from trading (with a regulated broker).'
So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.

So, driving the small traders to off-shore bucket shops is somehow protecting them? I don't get it.
emotionaltrader
Aug 20 2018 at 08:09
게시물100
ESMA are just a bunch of kill joys, all they've done is take all the fun and excitement out of trading. You can't even call it trading anymore, it's more like investing.


All they're really doing is protecting their own, that small 1 - 10% - the elite!!!
NotyaBusiness
Aug 20 2018 at 13:34
게시물19
Pipperidge posted:
NotyaBusiness posted:
TiffanyK posted:
'Lowering the margin has nothing to do with protecting the little trader. It's a way to drive them away from trading (with a regulated broker).'
So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.

So, driving the small traders to off-shore bucket shops is somehow protecting them? I don't get it.

The number of 'seasoned' small traders that don't make the cut to be 'Professional Trader' is insignificant compared to the number of rookies that would in 99% of the case lose their money.

Plus not all small traders think like you do.

I'm not a 'Professional Trader' and I won't go to unregulated broker. I closed with 145 pips profit last week on one of my accounts that has only £500. It resulted about net £27 in a week. If I can close a day with +1% I call it a successful day. Of course that doesn't happen all the time.

ESMA is protecting hundreds of thousands of people and no with small balance you won't be able to make a living so don't give up your day-job but you can make a solid base for college funds for your kids or whatever else on long term that beats every kind of savings offered by banks and can have fun, too.
The man who wants nothing is invincible.
Matt (BluePanther)
Aug 20 2018 at 13:34
게시물1356
emotionaltrader posted:
ESMA are just a bunch of kill joys, all they've done is take all the fun and excitement out of trading. You can't even call it trading anymore, it's more like investing.

All they're really doing is protecting their own, that small 1 - 10% - the elite!!!

ESMA is helping to support the gambling industry: poker machines, lottery, horse racing.

Keeping the poor poor.
niceGLer
Aug 21 2018 at 07:26
게시물169
BluePanther posted:

ESMA is helping to support the gambling industry: poker machines, lottery, horse racing.

Keeping the poor poor.

My experience about internet poker at micro stakes is that I wouldn't bet a dime on it. I think that the suspicion of internet poker being rigged is very much justified. At least the prices in forex trading can be verified. Internet poker, on the other hand, is that you can't verify if the cards are shuffled fairly to the players, even if the RNG has been audited by a third party company.

Probably it is true for the forex industry that as long as one is a losing trader things go well, even more so in poker. Sponsored players are different, and probably the game is fair for them.

I haven't tried sports betting, but probably that is a viable option along trading. Just because the results can be verified! Some people are making money with that, too.
niceGLer
Aug 21 2018 at 07:26
게시물169
PrincetonBoy posted:
It will be pretty tough to make some serious cash with only a $1k account but maybe that it the point. ESMA now makes people think that Forex trading is not a get rich quick scheme but something that can make a small bit of cash on the side and maybe , just maybe can make a bit more.

It IS tough but possible! I haven't done it but I know it. Check for the trading system data in myfxbook, and you'll see it.
From them, and from my experiences I've realized that what one needs is to go to the shorter time frames. I want to keep it more like a day job. Low fluctuations in trading account balances(volatility), etc.. Hardest part is staying aside when market conditions are against trading. Every time I hold my positions overnight I start losing.

A big obstacle for that kind of an approach are family obligations, a day job, or having an active social life.
Those things can be detrimental to trading, really!
vontogr (togr)
Aug 21 2018 at 10:25
게시물4862
NotyaBusiness posted:
TiffanyK posted:
'Lowering the margin has nothing to do with protecting the little trader. It's a way to drive them away from trading (with a regulated broker).'

Plus500 had 247,000 new depositors only last year. That broker has an over 80% of their clients lose money, which means nearly 200,000 of those new clients may have lost their money. And I believe other brokers, like Avatrade had similar stats.

So yes driving them away is protecting them. No one will be made to believe that their $1000 can make them rich anymore so they will not even start, that way protecting their little savings.


Nope, they will just lose their money elsewhere
vontogr (togr)
Aug 21 2018 at 10:26
게시물4862
niceGLer posted:
PrincetonBoy posted:
It will be pretty tough to make some serious cash with only a $1k account but maybe that it the point. ESMA now makes people think that Forex trading is not a get rich quick scheme but something that can make a small bit of cash on the side and maybe , just maybe can make a bit more.

It IS tough but possible! I haven't done it but I know it. Check for the trading system data in myfxbook, and you'll see it.
From them, and from my experiences I've realized that what one needs is to go to the shorter time frames. I want to keep it more like a day job. Low fluctuations in trading account balances(volatility), etc.. Hardest part is staying aside when market conditions are against trading. Every time I hold my positions overnight I start losing.

A big obstacle for that kind of an approach are family obligations, a day job, or having an active social life.
Those things can be detrimental to trading, really!

Nope. I have 3 kids, active social life and yet I am able to trade for living. With low and with high leverage. The trick is automatization. EA will always perform better than you. The core is good trading system.
arcadio
Aug 23 2018 at 11:09
게시물2
freaking ESMA is a killer for regulated European brokers. For now they are still ok because they converted some of their existing clients into Profesional clients. But as the leverage is only 1:10 on most instruments I dont think it will attract the newbies. I believe the future is Australian/offshore brokers.
jamesgwyther
Aug 23 2018 at 13:35
게시물289
arcadio posted:
freaking ESMA is a killer for regulated European brokers. For now they are still ok because they converted some of their existing clients into Profesional clients. But as the leverage is only 1:10 on most instruments I dont think it will attract the newbies. I believe the future is Australian/offshore brokers.

You can use JAFX, they are not affected by ESMA. Can still get 1:500 with them.
Pipperidge
Aug 23 2018 at 14:13
게시물13
arcadio posted:
freaking ESMA is a killer for regulated European brokers. For now they are still ok because they converted some of their existing clients into Profesional clients. But as the leverage is only 1:10 on most instruments I dont think it will attract the newbies. I believe the future is Australian/offshore brokers.
Or starting to trade cheap real stocks...
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