FRWC - Fusion V - Alpari Perbincangan

I don't understand what FXCM means by sponsor.
BT is also a sponsor as well but what does that
mean? Are they funding the competition?
What does sponsorship mean in this regard anyway?
FXCM vouching for the legitimacy of the competition
and Fusion peddlers? Then shouldn't the sponsors
at least verify and legitimize the contest winners?
How about actually showcasing them on their own
website? Oh, well... whatever!!! We don't care
anymore... but we do care about these people
giving refunds to people. We already know the
refund rate will go through the roof. We predict that
it will be well over 90%.

i think the 30days issue is nothing to do w/ plimus ..maybe it's more about banking withdrawal?

ok lets make simple calculation: how much people bought this ? 200? => average 800$ (599$ - 1000$) = 160,000$

if you count the prizes we re at 100 + 30 + 10 + 1 + 1 = 142,000$ => if sposnsorship => lets say 30% each fxcm and ib => 85,200=> ok so they have to put 56,800 from their pocket?

giving us gross profit = 18,000$ (160 - 142)

or 160,000 - 56,800 = 103,200 - sponsors (35%+35%)= 30,960$?? divided by the total number of clowns (let's say 5-6) = 5,630$ by clown...


too little margin or we got more buyers? like 500?

Plimus is just their bizarre payment processor choice.
Plimus has no refund policy, they process vendor's
refund policy whatever it is. Also, these vendors
do not get immediately paid by Plimus. Plimus
also has a history of not paying vendors as well.
And from what I have heard and read, it takes
often well over 30 days for vendors to get paid
by Plimus. But Fusion guys know the refund
rate would go through the roof. So if this is
their concern, then it is probable that they have
no intention of giving out refunds? Or they
want a chance to spend it before refunding it?
Again, Plimus themselves have no refund policy
in place... we checked and double checked. If
Plimus had some specific refund policy of let's say
30 days then we would all be screwed. Plimus
leaves it upto the vendor to come up with the
refund policy. But Plimus also screws with vendors.
So, slightly crooked people doing business with
slightly crooked people with very little credit.
Because if you had decent credit, you would
get credit card processing through a legitimate
bank or a big processing firm... not through
Plimus. Even ClickBanks is a more trustworthy
company. Even PayPal is better. And your
math is probably too conservative. I think
they sold a ton of this crap to people.
Just look at the number of affiliates alone. Again,
FXCM and BT clearly had no clue who they were
dealing with either. Who knows? Maybe FXCM
and BT will be scammed as well and end up dirtying
up their corporate image if Fusion clowns end up
not refunding and ends up disappearing. Who knows?
Their affiliation with FAPTurbo guys alone is questionable
in our view. Why them? Unless Fusion guys are them as well.
Right? I think 90% of all EAs are probably marketed by these
guys all under different names. Just look at the spam
we get when some new EA comes out. Most of them
are from FAPTurbo and FAP people. Then they create
urgency by closing the doors... only to re-open it for
limited time when the second "competition" is done... if
that even ever takes place... and sucks more people in.
When you make refund process difficult, most people
won't bother asking for a refund. This is a proven thing
in the field of marketing. Make it so unclear and difficult,
and most decent people will just not bother with it.
So if they manage to make over 1000 sales when they
re-open the doors and refund rate is low, they could even
make well over a million dollars. This is some smart scheme...
you get free EAs to market by pretending to be running
some competition. And suck some big forex firms and
bridge tech firm in as well. I doubt that FXCM and BT
really knows or endorses what Fusion clowns are doing.
Oh ya... coincidentally, their second competition is over
end of March when the bulk of refunds will be coming in.
At which point, they will conveniently re-open the doors
for limited time. Right? Ya, predictable.

irbis posted:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/irbis/fusionvdemobis3k/19845

again blown LOL in 3-4 days :)

ok clearpaper have any questions?

Thank you again for posting, every little bit helps in understanding the limits. Which broker are you using for this acount?

Offhand, the lotsize is too large. My accounts that have anything larger 0.01lot/$1k equity have also blown up. That said, the ones that are trading at this size/equity are also rather lackluster. However, the major thing is is that my trade timings don't match up with yours at all. Hence the question on which broker are you using.

Your HiRider trades open on 03.04.2010 02:17 (10 positions) had a loss not at the designated 210 pip SL. Were they stopped out due to hitting the maintenance margin? My similar timing trades at 03.05.2010 03:21 (GMT+0) are still open and flitting at the breakeven/profit level now.

Your HiRider trades open on 03.02.2010 10:12 (10 positions) hit their SL at the full 210pips. My similar timed trades are at 02.03.2010 11:23 (10 positions) and 02.03.2010 11:46 (10 positions), both sets hit their TP.

Strange.

irbis posted:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/irbis/fusionvdemobis3k/19845

again blown LOL in 3-4 days :)

ok clearpaper have any questions?

Hi Iribis,

As someone who is trying out these robots I have to ask the same questions as Clearpaper on this account. The -$50 stop outs don't make sense unless they were manually stopped out as Hi-rider has a terrifying 210 pip stoploss. Also, your LMD is getting killed which makes me think its on a broker with a larget GMT offset. If you have an account with a broker with a GMT offset of -5, compare the daily charts to one with an offset of 0 or +1...they are completely different. I tried two demos on my usual broker, ATC, who is -5 and both did terribly. I then opened an account on *sigh* FXCM and LMD is doing an excellent job so far (only 4 days of trading in though). Also, I've completely shut down SV and Strasha...SV is rubbish, and Strasha seems interesting, but after trying everything I can't seem to set it up so the Martingale doesn't kick in (I'm hoping for an update allowing it to be turned off).

I think my attitude is very different to Jon's. While I respect his fight for justice (against the dodgy, unstated refund policy) my plan is to instead see if I can work this thing for all its worth until I get my $1000 back. I think I'll honestly feel satisfied if I can do that. If anyone's up for joining me, let's talk settings and ideas and maybe give the refund policy a rest for a while.

ok guys you can find all my systems on my page http://myfxbook.com/members/irbis

as you cld see HiRider alone is making normal profit with 10k...
LMD is getting killed not because of the broker, it's a normal broker Eglobal.. they dont shut you trades with "anti-robots'' like some big brokers do... LMD is getting killed because it's a stupid system...

Fusion was killed twice on FxPro (ok maybe this broker is not good... and lots are too much... BUT in their live statement they used 0.1 lots on 1000$ balance..so dont tell me nuts ok?)

New Fusion on Eglobal... still alive... but nothing fantastic...


now compare to sonic (manual) or il1.6 ... this il1.6 (modified) which is the most stupid gridder (though i adjusted) is FFFAAAAAAAAAAAAR better than fusion till now...

haha okay okay you got me. And Eglobal is a normal broker, with a +1. Now you're making me nervous...I just checked my 5 LMD trades...each one is going south. They have 10 hours to right themselves before it closes them out ready to open 5 more. Come to think of it, its not that smart a system really, is it.
Excellent work on the manual trading by the way. I'll have to find out some more about Sonic...

maaan i got GMT offset +1 on all except FxPro (+2) what you need more?

It is important to note that GMT offset has very little
effect on anything. It really does not. Never eat
up nonsense fed to us by these weird EA marketers.
Even if your GMT offset input is totally off, it has very
little effect on LMD. LMD supposedly notes the day's
trading patterns and then jumps on it an hour or so
before Asia open. So, it really does not matter
what time LMD opens the orders unless your GMT
offset input is so off that it is set to NY open time.
1-2-3-4-or even 5 hour difference won't make much
of a difference. If your broker offset input is correct and you
made sure it was offset by 5 hours, fine. Your
broker being 5 hours apart from GMT time has no effect
EVEN if your offset input is wrong. But then again,
there is the auto detect option. So, just set auto to
true... So again, no effect
whatsoever. It is absolutely certain that LMD sucks.
It royally sucks. It absolutely bites. It is worthless.
Only HiRider has any value and only if you have a huge
balance and if you are risking less than 5% total on
your trades. Ideally, over $10,000 in equity and your
fixed lot sizes are ideally around .1 and no more than 5
max orders concurrently. Even then you have to decide
on a smart SL and TP on your own; which is the most
difficult aspect of trading no matter who you are. Default
settings are a joke! We are only being honest here. Do you
see any level of honesty anywhere? Nope. If you want
honesty, you had better tell all prospective buyers to
this very thread. People need honest evaluations, not
some BS written by affiliates. And any and all Martingale
system is BS. Just accept it. It never works in the long-term.
Long-term defined as anything longer than 4 weeks. It simply
does not work even if you have a huge huge equity. It will
eventually give you a margin call since drawdown will be
enormous since you will have losing positions and when
these types of EAs see a losing potions, it opens up
bigger and bigger lots... NOT in a hedging position but
in the same losing position using grid placements.
Even if Martingale system uses hedging, you will
eventually get a margin call. Martingale is made for
margin calls... it is unavoidable. So just accept it. Martingale sucks.
And as irbis stated, LMD sucks too. Only HIRider has any potential
and only if you have a huge equity and only if you are smart enough
to set your own tight SL and TP and only if you are committed to
using HIRider as a scalper and only on EURUSD on a tight platform
like Dukascopy where EURUSD's spread is always 1. And sometimes
even less than 1 point. You can adjust the Martingale multiplication
settings but again, Martingale is not worth anyone's time and effort.
You would have more fun playing roulette than using Martingale
to trade anything. And it does not take 4 freaking weeks to
determine if this sucks and talking about optimization is another
waste of time. LMD sucks. OK? Plus, there is nothing to tweak.
Not one single parameter of LMD is under our control except lot
sizing. So pointless discussion there. And if you have trading
experience, you already have your notion on proper SL and TP
so again pointless. There is nothing to discuss here. What settings?
You are giving Fusion guys and this group of EAs just way too much
credit. The settings are a joke as well. So you will discuss proper
SL and TP settings while demoing this for 6 months while continually
losing money? Give me a break! We have actually traded our real
live account on this otherwise, you really can't know a damn thing.
Demo is not the same thing as live. Another truth these EA clowns
never tell you. Live server always acts differently because it is
well live and dynamic. Demo is meaningless. And using Fusion,
we lost money! That's all we need to know. Nothing fantastic
to tweak or optimize in Fusion. It is all simple straightforward stuff
as EAs go. And LMD is un-tweakable! Even Volcano is better than
LMD in terms of parameter control. So, if you have so much faith
in this, trade real money OK? Then tell us how confident you are.
Besides, HiRider is not worth $1,000+ sadly. They should just sell that
for $97 on ClickBank.

I was told that if you need refund you must use 0.01 lots, meaning follow strictly the manual eventhough their competition and live accounts use more than 0.01 lots.
Have anyone here apply for refund directly from Plimus (before your 30 days are up)?

Someone here and elsewhere has already tried that
approach. Plimus does not care. Your request
goes directly to the vendor and the vendor, in
this case the Fusion clowns, will come out giving
you the same copy and paste BS of their refund
policy which clearly now is all different depending
on who replies to your ticket request. So now,
you must run .01 lots eh? Preferably using their
IB FXCM competition platform right? Of course.
Plimus will not give you a refund over the vendor.
Unless it is clear that the vendor is a crook and
Plimus can clearly see that there are well over
hundred complaints against a particular vendor
and if they all threaten a chargeback. And more
than a few occasions, some of us has been told
that it must be 30 days of trading days. Not 30
days from date of purchase. They clearly mean to
keep refund policy as fuzzy a humanly possible.
And Plimus never overrides the vendor like the
more respectable ClickBank does. ClickBank will
always override the vendor and give a refund.
Just do a Google on Plimus.com. They are just
as crooked as the bunches of vendors using them
as a payment processor. People with respectable
credit will not go to Plimus. People with no credit
and who cannot get bank processing go to Plimus.
And clearly, Fusion clowns decided not to use
ClickBank because ClickBank gives out refunds
very easily to customers.

Inquiring about refunds. 2 days, no email response.
Live Chat is noted as "AWAY"
Phone support was a message that they are exeriencing extremely heavy call volume.

'nuf said

msteve000 posted:
Inquiring about refunds. 2 days, no email response.
Live Chat is noted as "AWAY"
Phone support was a message that they are exeriencing extremely heavy call volume.

'nuf said

Starting to look like a huge joke eh?
If you did two payment option, report
your credit card lost. Even if you did
one payment, report it lost. Why?
Because these Fusion clowns have your
credit card info. We read about Plimus
vendors charging people like 2-3 months
later for small charges and most people
overlook it right? There are a ton of
stories where Plimus vendors charge
people before they decide to disappear.
So the reason we say to report your
card lost is to avoid this possibility.
If they do refund, refunds will still
come into your new account even if
you got a new card. So no worries there
but they cannot charge you again.

msteve000 posted:
Inquiring about refunds. 2 days, no email response.
Live Chat is noted as "AWAY"
Phone support was a message that they are exeriencing extremely heavy call volume.

'nuf said

Or in other words:
"We're currently packing our bags and taking a one way trip to an undisclosed location (Panama?). We appreciate your patience while we steal your money.

Its been absolute pleasure working with you guys."

😁

carlscott1982 posted:

irbis posted:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/irbis/fusionvdemobis3k/19845

again blown LOL in 3-4 days :)

ok clearpaper have any questions?

Hi Iribis,

As someone who is trying out these robots I have to ask the same questions as Clearpaper on this account. The -$50 stop outs don't make sense unless they were manually stopped out as Hi-rider has a terrifying 210 pip stoploss. Also, your LMD is getting killed which makes me think its on a broker with a larget GMT offset. If you have an account with a broker with a GMT offset of -5, compare the daily charts to one with an offset of 0 or +1...they are completely different. I tried two demos on my usual broker, ATC, who is -5 and both did terribly. I then opened an account on *sigh* FXCM and LMD is doing an excellent job so far (only 4 days of trading in though). Also, I've completely shut down SV and Strasha...SV is rubbish, and Strasha seems interesting, but after trying everything I can't seem to set it up so the Martingale doesn't kick in (I'm hoping for an update allowing it to be turned off).

I think my attitude is very different to Jon's. While I respect his fight for justice (against the dodgy, unstated refund policy) my plan is to instead see if I can work this thing for all its worth until I get my $1000 back. I think I'll honestly feel satisfied if I can do that. If anyone's up for joining me, let's talk settings and ideas and maybe give the refund policy a rest for a while.

Hi carlscott1982,

For your ATC accounts, unless you actively changed your Fusion settings for AutoGmtOffset to False (by default being True), it should auto detect and adjust your GMT settings. It does not matter what GmtOffset is set to as AutoGmtOffset overrides it.

Hi Irbis,

I found another account which also took a big hit from equivalent HiRider trades opened on 03.02.2010 11:12 and closed on 03.03.2010 16:30. Although there it only opened 5 positions.
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/fusionrobot/fusion-v-robot/18386
They shouldn't be the same broker as FXPro as their GmtOffset is different. So now we know that there is consistency(at least for HiRider), however, trades taken are broker specific.
On that note, my observations for SuperVolcano, it appears that latency is rather critical for this EA.(i.e. not consistent for the same broker, can be different depending on latency or other factors)

Hi jonfxbot,

I'm sorry to hear you lost money on your live account through Fusion. I sincerely hope you get your refund. In your position, I would reserve my comments until if and when I am denied my refund. Then that's when I will put things into gear. No sense getting this worked up over an event which outcome is still up in the air.
Regarding your statements about GmtOffset, you seem to refute yourself about its importance at the end of the paragraph so I don't know what you really think.
I feel compelled to prevent any mis-education to a casual reader and must reiterate, GmtOffset is very important. If you look at their logic, SuperVolcano turns OFF during the offhours while Straasha turns ON during the offhours. LMD trades at midnight. If your GMT is not set correctly, you are trading away from the optimal hours their logics are designed for, and setting yourself up for trouble.
I concur that LMD's performance is questionable, however, if you're smart about it, you'll realise that some currencies are performing better than the rest. And unlike what you say about its settings, you can turn off those you do not want traded.

Ha ha. It's OK if we look like fools...
but if this is what is going on... well then,
FXCM and BT look like fools and they are
the ones who will get the blunt of the
Fusion clowns' crookedness. Maybe... maybe
they will still give out refunds but it is starting
to look like it is going south eh? And not just
the tradings of Fusion. If these guys turn
out to be crooks... the say goodbye to
FXCM and BT. Maybe then FXCM will go
after these Fusion clowns? Oh, did we misspoke?
Maybe these Fusion clowns will give out refunds?
Time has come to stop defending these guys even
if they do give out refunds.

Again, wrong!!!

GMT offset is not important!!!

We'll tell you why that is. Because we are not
talking about where people are inputting it
so that the difference is 15 hours. No!!!

The most difference is no more than 5 hours.
And only if the person inputs the settings wrong!!!

Now, there is a damn auto detect option so again,
GMT option argument is to totally moot, it is a damn
sad joke!!!

GMT OFFSET IS NOT AN IMPORTANT FUNCTION OF A
DAMN THING WITH REGARDS TO THIS EA OR ANY EA!!!

It is extremely important to accept this!!! Like we said,
unless you input the GMT to be offset by 12 hours and
EA is opening orders at NY open, it still won't make much
of a difference because the EA still has done a good day's
worth of analysis before it is opening a trade. Now, another
mistaken notion is that scalping and trading works better
during Asia session. This is another gross mis-education
going around forex arena mostly passed on by EA
marketers. GMT offset is not important unless you have
specifically designed an optimized EA to work optimized
during a specific timeframe!!! And unless the GMT offset
is off by 12 hours or more. Otherwise, it is totally irrelevant!!!

And again, Fusion has auto GMT detect on it!!! Just set the
damn thing to auto detect!!! The idea behind LMD is
that it trades during the quiet Asia session but it actually
opens about an hour before Asia open. And it is not relevant
when LMD opens the trades. They are mostly unprofitable.

And what we said was that not one single LMD setting is
tweakable. Being able to turn it off is a setting? Are you
kidding us with this nonsense??? Being able to turn it off
or on and being able to set the lot size is nothing to talk
about. Again, HiRider and Volcano are far superior to LMD
and I hate them as well.

Let's get some honesty based on reality here... not some
hopeful or respectful sounding BS. They are all useless.
And they all become utter jokes if these Fusion clowns
have run away already.

Let's get this GMT nonsense done with once and for all.

EA marketers say this crap because they say their EA
is designed to work optimally at certain time.

So, GMT offset option is nothing more than a way
for the EA to tell what time it is. That's all GMT offset
option in EAs is. It tells the EA what time it is right now.

That's all that is. So, it all predicates on whether the
EA actually works better at certain time or not.

With LMD, you are assuming that it works best during
Asia open. But it is opening based on the entire day's
worth of pattern analysis... not on Asia session data
alone. So again, faulty logic even by LMD standards.

Now, we have tested LMD on all types of GMT offset
so that it opened trades at every incremental hours.
It makes no difference since we question the trading
logic in the first place. There is not one single
evidence that it trades best during Asia session.
If it does, we all would have seen evidence of it already.

Stop giving this Fusion crap too much credit or too much
important to GMT offset crap. We have yet to see an
EA that works best at certain trading hours. Even after
all these years, we haven't seen one single one. A great
EA is something that will be profitable when the market
is active and volume huge not when it is quiet. And
really, is it really that much more quiet during Asia
sessions? Be smart consumers ok? There is no
evidence that LMD trades better during Asia session.

fusion manual states something to the effect that
gmt -5 brokers won't be as profitable as gmt 0 or +1
brokers. this is where the false statements come in.
i don't know why ea sellers say this still like jonfx stated.
unless the ea works best during a specified time and
unless you set the gmt offset wrong, it is totally
irrelevant issue. they are actually saying gmt -5 brokers
won't work as well as gmt +1 brokers. only thing you
are doing is telling the ea what time it is. ea is comparing
the broker time to the input offset amount to determine
what time it is right now. so even if your broker is gmt -5,
if you put in the correct input in gmt offset setting, it
makes no different what time your brokers' server is running.
you correctly told the ea the correct current time. now,
this only matters only if the ea really works best during
asia session as LMD says it does. otherwise, it is all again
completely not important. and 6pm est is still 6pm est
no matter where you are in the world and no matter
what time your brokers' server is running as long as the
ea knows that it indeed is 6pm est even if you are trading
in middle of norway. this is the way ea marketers insult
and confuse newbies like gmt offset setting is some
great important setting. it isn't and most brokers' are
not offset by more than 5 or 6 hours. most of them
have servers running on gmt time or offset by no more
than 1 or 2 hours. 2 hours makes very little difference
even to an ea that supposedly runs best during certain
time. and i too can say that LMD is horrid in any time zone.
i am glad i found this thread on fusion. maybe i'll see if anyone gets
a refund or not.

oc92673, are you posting from the same terminal as jonfxbot? lol...

jonfxbot, it's really bizarre how you say GmtOffset is not important then in your explanation why so, end up saying it is.

I'm quite lost for words.

If I were FRWC, I would give you your refund right now.




Sigh... I'll give this another go.
At no point did I say LMD trades best at Asian hours. I haven't studied the logic. LMD lost most of your money, huh?
Observers can note that SuperVolcano trades during the active sessions, avoiding GMT 1 to 5. Straasha, the opposite, when the Euro mkts are closed. Both are understandably sound as per their respective logics, you want to more liquidity/volatility, or you want more ranging markets.

If your GMToffset is not right, the EA trading times are affected, causing them to trade when by right, they shouldn't be trading as per their logic.

You understand? A little at least?