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# Avoid a scam called: SCALPING !!!

nickz
Mar 09 2015 at 07:55
16 příspěvků
Whenever you read of a system that uses scalping..run away, to know why..keep reading:

Imagine a roulette wheel in a casino. You walk up to the table and place a bet on either red or black. What are your chances of success?
If you’ve never played roulette, you might think the odds are 50–50. After all, half of the numbered pockets are red, and the other half are black, right?

WRONG. In addition to the red and black pockets, there is at least one pocket that is neither red nor black. This “zero” pocket tilts the odds slightly against our player. In European roulette there is only one zero pocket, giving the house aslight advantage. On this table, the odds are about 53:47 against our player.

American roulette wheels have two 0s, zero and double zero, and this increases the house advantage to about 5.3 percent. This further stacks the odds against our player, reducing his chances for success.

In the world of forex trading, the zero pockets represent the spread. The odds are always going to be at least slightly in favor of the “house,” which in this case is the market maker. The wider the spread, the more “zero pockets” the trader must overcome. Just as each additional zero pocket lowers the roulette player’s chances of success, every additional pip in the spread lessens the trader’s chances of success.

Doing the Math:

Let’s assume that we are trading a currency pair that has a 3-pip spread, since a spread of that size is very common in the forex market.
Our trader just wants to gain 10 pips. That should be easy, right? It’s understood that the trader will lose the spread (3 pips) upon entering the trade. So, in order to turn a profit of 10 pips, the trader actually needs the exchange rate to move 13 pips in his or her favor: 10 + 3 = 13

Now that we know what is required to create a winning trade, let’s see what would have to happen to create an equivalent loss. This is how we will determine the odds of success or failure.
In order to generate a loss of 10 pips, the trader would only need an adverse move of 7 pips. This is because a loss of 3 pips is incurred immediately upon entering the trade, again due to the 3-pip spread: 10 - 3 = 7

We’ve determined that our trader needs a positive move of 13 pips to gain 10 pips, but an adverse move of just 7 pips will result in an equivalent loss of 10 pips. The “raw odds” of 10-pip win versus a 10-pip loss for this trade can be expressed as:
13/7 = 1.857 : 1
The odds of success in this case are 1.857:1, or nearly 2:1 against. That’s a real eye-opener, isn’t it?
Now you know why it’s so difficult to make money trading for small gains.
Do your best then blame luck.
otprofit
Mar 09 2015 at 12:14
20 příspěvků
Hi, all,

my recent LiteForex results,

Judge by yourselves any case what might will happen to you soon.

Stop Loss order I made was no meaning , just leaded to huge loss.
Anyway, I think sharing information is very important with you all.

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/otprofit/my-ea-liteforex/1167823
Your life is yours
Forex21
Mar 09 2015 at 12:22
416 příspěvků
I don't think that scalping has much to do with a Roulette table. 😄
alexforex007
Mar 09 2015 at 12:27
775 příspěvků
Scalping is not for beginners. You need a lot of discipline and learn how to really scalp. Going in the direction of the momentum of the market is how traders usually scalp, but there should be some rules and place and apply them with discipline. In reallity, most of the big traders are scalping, most of the trading volume is not held overnight.
Cholipop
Mar 09 2015 at 12:36
406 příspěvků
I would say that you are wrong. Scalping with high accuracy allows you to have a draw - down of less then 20% and earn more then 400% profit using the same money management no matter account size.. The world doesn't move in maths the way you are suggesting it does in forex.
Ben Nathan (BenNathanFX)
Mar 09 2015 at 14:18
137 příspěvků
Scalping can be lucrative but it requires intense focus and you must scalp in line with fundamentals - otherwise youll lose out . you also need a system that accounts for things such as slippage and spread.
HOLY GRAIL: Fundamental Analysis to chose your pairs/direction, Technical Entry/SL/TP for consistent Management of those decisions
5astelija
Mar 09 2015 at 14:25
54 příspěvků
Very good points by nickz, I hope all starting traders see this thread. Yes, many scalping systems have small draw down - this is usually achieved with big sl or martingale. This way the risk is hidden: there are lots of small profits and never losing trades. Until the big lose happens, wiping out all the profits.
You can't remove laws of probability with martingale, but you can hide them.
Cholipop
Mar 09 2015 at 14:26
406 příspěvků
Things like slippage and spread are very very important to being a good scalper. You should also have an EA to manager your tp and trail as brokers set limits to how far from market you can hedge, etc. For the most part 5% a day in scalping should be a walk in the park. Many want to compare forex to things like casino games, but casino games are RANDOM! Where has odds determines more your chance of winning then in forex. Since forex trades in a loop, if you decide to only trades those loops, then scalping is much more clear cut, and you can take in a small amount of pips but a decent size of % change.
keffster
Mar 09 2015 at 17:48
2 příspěvků
Well, keep on doing the mass and don't stop in the middle:
In other words: You (only) need to be right in 2 out of 3 trades to be profitable. I've seen people doing this. ;)
In addition we could now discuss whether prices in near future are easier to predict then prices in the further future...
5astelija
Mar 09 2015 at 17:48
54 příspěvků
Many want to compare forex to things like casino games simply because it is a good comparison. Both forex and casino always have risk, and nobody can't predict them with 100% accuracy.
If you really could always accurately predict the price movement, you should be world's richest man already.
Cholipop
Mar 09 2015 at 17:48
406 příspěvků
5astelija posted:
Very good points by nickz, I hope all starting traders see this thread. Yes, many scalping systems have small draw down - this is usually achieved with big sl or martingale. This way the risk is hidden: there are lots of small profits and never losing trades. Until the big lose happens, wiping out all the profits.
You can't remove laws of probability with martingale, but you can hide them.

Having a small drawdown can be a productive of many things. One of the most over look stats in forex is 'Pip - drawdown'. Pip- drawdown is one of the two things used in calculating drawdown %. A scalper should always look to enter a position with the lowest Pip-drowdown possible.
Using a 'BIG STOP LOSS' or 'Martingale' has nothing to do with the system itself. SL,TP, LOT SIZE, etc all has to do with 'trade/money management' I scalp and I per trade won't allow myself to go in red more then 10 pips. 10 pips is more then enough protecting if you are scalping in a certain matter.
If on avg your scalping system doesn't give up 10 pips before winning 10 pips, then you have about a 1:1 R:R. So if you wager 1% of your account per pip, then your max drawdown% would be 10% as you are looking to gain 10% of your account. Accuracy is the name of the game in scalping.
Although scalping usually has small loss, and big losses the big losses are attributed to 'trader bias' more then anything else.
sweetbellic
Mar 09 2015 at 19:19
18 příspěvků
Cholipop posted:
Having a small drawdown can be a productive of many things. One of the most over look stats in forex is 'Pip - drawdown'. Pip- drawdown is one of the two things used in calculating drawdown %. A scalper should always look to enter a position with the lowest Pip-drowdown possible.

Wise words. An accurate entry to limit the pip drawdown as much as possible is the most important thing. Generally, thinking in pips is the best way for good trading. Everything else can be scaled by Lotsize or Leverage.
Rustan mallari (tankbeta)
Mar 10 2015 at 01:33
171 příspěvků
nickz posted:
Whenever you read of a system that uses scalping..run away, to know why..keep reading:

Imagine a roulette wheel in a casino. You walk up to the table and place a bet on either red or black. What are your chances of success?
If you’ve never played roulette, you might think the odds are 50–50. After all, half of the numbered pockets are red, and the other half are black, right?

WRONG. In addition to the red and black pockets, there is at least one pocket that is neither red nor black. This “zero” pocket tilts the odds slightly against our player. In European roulette there is only one zero pocket, giving the house aslight advantage. On this table, the odds are about 53:47 against our player.

American roulette wheels have two 0s, zero and double zero, and this increases the house advantage to about 5.3 percent. This further stacks the odds against our player, reducing his chances for success.

In the world of forex trading, the zero pockets represent the spread. The odds are always going to be at least slightly in favor of the “house,” which in this case is the market maker. The wider the spread, the more “zero pockets” the trader must overcome. Just as each additional zero pocket lowers the roulette player’s chances of success, every additional pip in the spread lessens the trader’s chances of success.

Doing the Math:

Let’s assume that we are trading a currency pair that has a 3-pip spread, since a spread of that size is very common in the forex market.
Our trader just wants to gain 10 pips. That should be easy, right? It’s understood that the trader will lose the spread (3 pips) upon entering the trade. So, in order to turn a profit of 10 pips, the trader actually needs the exchange rate to move 13 pips in his or her favor: 10 + 3 = 13

Now that we know what is required to create a winning trade, let’s see what would have to happen to create an equivalent loss. This is how we will determine the odds of success or failure.
In order to generate a loss of 10 pips, the trader would only need an adverse move of 7 pips. This is because a loss of 3 pips is incurred immediately upon entering the trade, again due to the 3-pip spread: 10 - 3 = 7

We’ve determined that our trader needs a positive move of 13 pips to gain 10 pips, but an adverse move of just 7 pips will result in an equivalent loss of 10 pips. The “raw odds” of 10-pip win versus a 10-pip loss for this trade can be expressed as:
13/7 = 1.857 : 1
The odds of success in this case are 1.857:1, or nearly 2:1 against. That’s a real eye-opener, isn’t it?
Now you know why it’s so difficult to make money trading for small gains.

you're not making money in forex. thats why.
Plan your trades and trade your plans.
Cholipop
Mar 10 2015 at 07:25
406 příspěvků
sweetbellic posted:
Cholipop posted:
Having a small drawdown can be a productive of many things. One of the most over look stats in forex is 'Pip - drawdown'. Pip- drawdown is one of the two things used in calculating drawdown %. A scalper should always look to enter a position with the lowest Pip-drowdown possible.

Wise words. An accurate entry to limit the pip drawdown as much as possible is the most important thing. Generally, thinking in pips is the best way for good trading. Everything else can be scaled by Lotsize or Leverage.

Thank you very much for responding. The reality is if you are scalping or swinging, if you focus on accuracy that is the only way to keep the draw down % low. Money management is just one part of the story, but the key part is the actual system.
Why do you think an account can have the best stats for months, only to explode in one day? It isn't the actually system as much as it is the person behind it. Moving stop losses, avging up or down, are things which can affect your results, but isn't directly a product of the actual system.
nickz
Mar 10 2015 at 07:32
16 příspěvků
SL,TP, MM, Super Strategies, Indicators, EA's, Rules, Hedging, Martingale, D'Alembert, Trend Following, Algorithmic trading..etc etc.. are all excellent tools and very much necessary for a successful trading, I'm not saying they are not but the most important factor that is being neglected by 95% of traders is the ODDS of winning a gambling act (whatever it was Casino Forex or whatever).

You may get lucky scalping for a week, 2 weeks, 2 month but since this is a never ending game and the odds are against you by 2:1 the spread will eat you up, it's like swimming against the river.
Do your best then blame luck.
nickz
Mar 10 2015 at 07:32
16 příspěvků
keffster posted:
Well, keep on doing the mass and don't stop in the middle:
In other words: You (only) need to be right in 2 out of 3 trades to be profitable. I've seen people doing this. ;)
In addition we could now discuss whether prices in near future are easier to predict then prices in the further future...

Maybe you could show us those profitable graphs.
Do your best then blame luck.
Cholipop
Mar 10 2015 at 07:39
406 příspěvků
tankbeta posted:
nickz posted:
Whenever you read of a system that uses scalping..run away, to know why..keep reading:

Imagine a roulette wheel in a casino. You walk up to the table and place a bet on either red or black. What are your chances of success?
If you’ve never played roulette, you might think the odds are 50–50. After all, half of the numbered pockets are red, and the other half are black, right?

WRONG. In addition to the red and black pockets, there is at least one pocket that is neither red nor black. This “zero” pocket tilts the odds slightly against our player. In European roulette there is only one zero pocket, giving the house aslight advantage. On this table, the odds are about 53:47 against our player.

American roulette wheels have two 0s, zero and double zero, and this increases the house advantage to about 5.3 percent. This further stacks the odds against our player, reducing his chances for success.

In the world of forex trading, the zero pockets represent the spread. The odds are always going to be at least slightly in favor of the “house,” which in this case is the market maker. The wider the spread, the more “zero pockets” the trader must overcome. Just as each additional zero pocket lowers the roulette player’s chances of success, every additional pip in the spread lessens the trader’s chances of success.

Doing the Math:

Let’s assume that we are trading a currency pair that has a 3-pip spread, since a spread of that size is very common in the forex market.
Our trader just wants to gain 10 pips. That should be easy, right? It’s understood that the trader will lose the spread (3 pips) upon entering the trade. So, in order to turn a profit of 10 pips, the trader actually needs the exchange rate to move 13 pips in his or her favor: 10 + 3 = 13

Now that we know what is required to create a winning trade, let’s see what would have to happen to create an equivalent loss. This is how we will determine the odds of success or failure.
In order to generate a loss of 10 pips, the trader would only need an adverse move of 7 pips. This is because a loss of 3 pips is incurred immediately upon entering the trade, again due to the 3-pip spread: 10 - 3 = 7

We’ve determined that our trader needs a positive move of 13 pips to gain 10 pips, but an adverse move of just 7 pips will result in an equivalent loss of 10 pips. The “raw odds” of 10-pip win versus a 10-pip loss for this trade can be expressed as:
13/7 = 1.857 : 1
The odds of success in this case are 1.857:1, or nearly 2:1 against. That’s a real eye-opener, isn’t it?
Now you know why it’s so difficult to make money trading for small gains.

you're not making money in forex. thats why.

It is much easier to say 'You can't do something', because you have failed at it. The truth is scalping is the most profitable way earning extra income in forex.
Cholipop
Mar 10 2015 at 07:40
406 příspěvků
keffster posted:
Well, keep on doing the mass and don't stop in the middle:
In other words: You (only) need to be right in 2 out of 3 trades to be profitable. I've seen people doing this. ;)
In addition we could now discuss whether prices in near future are easier to predict then prices in the further future...

Do you think prices in the near future is much easier to guess then prices in the distance future?
Rustan mallari (tankbeta)
Mar 10 2015 at 11:01
171 příspěvků
Some People always wanted to be right. 🙄
Plan your trades and trade your plans.
Ben Nathan (BenNathanFX)
Mar 10 2015 at 12:30
137 příspěvků
The reality is Scalping will work for some and wont for others.....
It depends on your time constraints and focus - and also the methods you apply of course.... just be aware that some brokers do NOT like scalpers - the simple thing to do is call your broker and ask them if they are 'Scalper' friendly ...

HOLY GRAIL: Fundamental Analysis to chose your pairs/direction, Technical Entry/SL/TP for consistent Management of those decisions
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