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Why even trade forex? Will it be useless for us traders in the coming years?

Gillinjahrel
Aug 01 2012 at 16:38
25 příspěvků
I ask this because every time I read what a 'seasoned trader' has to say about anything, it's always about how bad the market is, how no one is making money and how hard it is to make even 5% on your investment per month, how no one is making profitable systems (Manual or EAs). With the US continuing to limit the way we trade it only leads me to think there is no way to really make money in forex unless you have $10000000000 to f*ck off. Despite hearing about these people who actually make a decent living from forex (that a 'seasoned traders' seem to think is not even possible) I have never met one just ones who contently complain every time someone has a new EA to share.
Massur (massur)
Aug 01 2012 at 17:01
23 příspěvků
Will it be useless for us traders in the coming years? Absolutely no.
With the stabilization of the Euro more commonly used cross in forex will become other with consequent movement of large amounts of capital and this will lead to the development of new EA in many ways that work differently on other new 'grasslands'.
All EA do not work until proven otherwise on long time . Extreme manual scalping is only a modern form of onanism.
SIM
pip2cash
Aug 02 2012 at 01:11
423 příspěvků

Gillinjahrel posted:
I ask this because every time I read what a 'seasoned trader' has to say about anything, it's always about how bad the market is, how no one is making money and how hard it is to make even 5% on your investment per month, how no one is making profitable systems (Manual or EAs). With the US continuing to limit the way we trade it only leads me to think there is no way to really make money in forex unless you have $10000000000 to f*ck off. Despite hearing about these people who actually make a decent living from forex (that a 'seasoned traders' seem to think is not even possible) I have never met one just ones who contently complain every time someone has a new EA to share.

Hi,

What do you mean by 'useless' in your question?
A good trader can make profit both in good and bad market condition, including Forex trader.
I think is not no one is making money in Forex, it is most of real profitable traders hiding and make money behind.

Regards,
SIM
Gillinjahrel
Aug 02 2012 at 02:02
25 příspěvků

pip2cash posted:

What do you mean by 'useless' in your question?


I mean not profitable for the working man. Only for those with Millions already.
SIM
pip2cash
Aug 02 2012 at 04:13
423 příspěvků

Gillinjahrel posted:

pip2cash posted:

What do you mean by 'useless' in your question?


I mean not profitable for the working man. Only for those with Millions already.

Hi,

Thanks for clarification. Do you mean when we trade Forex with little or small initial capital will not make us a living from Forex when using a system with 5% monthly return?

Then time is a factor, you need longer time to grow the small initial capital into bigger money. Only then you can live with income from trading Forex. But then it comes to whether your trading strategy can make you consistent income for years, from growing a small initial capital to big capital then continue to last... for generating income for living.

That is my 2cent worth of opinion.

Regards,
SIM
James_Bond
Aug 02 2012 at 08:44
556 příspěvků

Gillinjahrel posted:
I ask this because every time I read what a 'seasoned trader' has to say about anything, it's always about how bad the market is, how no one is making money and how hard it is to make even 5% on your investment per month, how no one is making profitable systems (Manual or EAs). With the US continuing to limit the way we trade it only leads me to think there is no way to really make money in forex unless you have $10000000000 to f*ck off. Despite hearing about these people who actually make a decent living from forex (that a 'seasoned traders' seem to think is not even possible) I have never met one just ones who contently complain every time someone has a new EA to share.

Those who know who to make money with forex will most likely not be affected by the US regulations - they will simply be forced to relocate themselves or do some kind of proxy trading to avoid the regulations.

In any case, I don't think it is going away anytime soon. There are millions to be made by brokers, and this is a very accessible market for retail traders - low fees and abundance of broker choices.
dlathrop
Aug 07 2012 at 01:11
33 příspěvků

Gillinjahrel posted:

pip2cash posted:

What do you mean by 'useless' in your question?


I mean not profitable for the working man. Only for those with Millions already.

Actually, you and I trade on tighter spreads than people trading millions of dollars do. Most people mistakenly think that the more money you trade, the better spreads you can get from a broker. Actually, the opposite is true. Your trading costs usually increase when you start trading more than 5 million a click; but it can vary. 1 standard lot = $100,000 of purchasing power, 50 standard lots = $5,000,000.

So as you can see, the odds of generating a higher return than of those who trade 'millions' are in your favor. If you can make 5% per month consistently on a small account with very small drawdowns, there's a good chance you will get picked up by a prop trading firm or hedge fund and start making decent money.
There are risk-lovers and there are risk-haters, but the best traders will take the risk as long as they get paid for it.
dlathrop
Aug 07 2012 at 01:24
33 příspěvků

James_Bond posted:

Gillinjahrel posted:
I ask this because every time I read what a 'seasoned trader' has to say about anything, it's always about how bad the market is, how no one is making money and how hard it is to make even 5% on your investment per month, how no one is making profitable systems (Manual or EAs). With the US continuing to limit the way we trade it only leads me to think there is no way to really make money in forex unless you have $10000000000 to f*ck off. Despite hearing about these people who actually make a decent living from forex (that a 'seasoned traders' seem to think is not even possible) I have never met one just ones who contently complain every time someone has a new EA to share.

Those who know who to make money with forex will most likely not be affected by the US regulations - they will simply be forced to relocate themselves or do some kind of proxy trading to avoid the regulations.

In any case, I don't think it is going away anytime soon. There are millions to be made by brokers, and this is a very accessible market for retail traders - low fees and abundance of broker choices.

Copied & Pasted. Regulation is a good thing. Forex brokers can go out of business for a variety of reasons (including fraud) and that can result in lost customer funds. As a trader, you're suppose to manage your risk. That includes the risk of your actual account funds!

There are four main reasons traders cite as to why they would prefer to open a forex account outside of the United States. Outside of the United States: 200:1 or more leverage is available, hedging is permitted, FIFO accounting rules are not required, and you can use your domestic currency to fund and trade your account. Let’s address these one at a time:

1. Our argument against the use of excessive leverage is clear: profitable traders don’t need more than 50:1 leverage. Traders using more than 50:1 leverage are susceptible to wild swings in their account balance and will most likely blow up their account.

2. Under our solution, the customer's trading experience in terms of hedging does not change. In order to abide by the CFTC no hedging rule, the counter party offsets the positions as they receive the orders. When orders are placed on the MT 4 platform, the hedging feature remains available. For example, if you buy and sell a contract on the MT4 software, you will notice your positions are hedged on the interface, however, the orders that have been sent to the counter party have been offset with each other. Your net position remains the same on the MT4 and the back office. When you close your hedge positions on the MT4 software, the new buy and sell orders placed will be offset with each other by the counter party and again your net positions on the MT4 and the back office remain the same.

3. In order to abide by the CFTC FIFO rule, the counter party offsets the positions on a First In First Out basis. On the MetaTrader 4 platform you have the ability to close the positions as you see fit. For example, if you buy a contract and buy another contract at a later time and you decide to close your most recent buy position, you can simply close this position on the MT4 interface, however, the order that is sent to the counter party will be offset with the FIFO rule in place. Your net position remains the same on the MT4 and the back office.

4. In the past, if you wanted to trade forex with a U.S. broker, you had to first obtain U.S. dollars to fund your account. The problem is that exchanging your home currency for dollars is essentially a speculative transaction. Fluctuations in the exchange rate may decrease the value of your account relative to the rate at which you originally made the transaction. Now, you don’t need to exchange your country’s currency for dollars. We offer you the choice of funding and trading an account with EUR, GBP, CHF, JPY, AUD, and CAD.

Now, considering that the four cited reasons can be easily addressed, let’s talk about the one main reason in favor of opening your forex account in the United States. This single reason for opening a forex account in the United States overwhelming trumps any reason(s) for not doing so.

Where you deposit your money is incredibly important. You need to know that it’s safe and that the brokers holding it are the most regulated and under the heaviest scrutiny in the forex industry. Trading is hard enough as it is, why expose your funds to unnecessary risk?

The United States is the most heavily regulated Forex industry in the world. All brokers must register with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and are members of the National Futures Association.

Brokers have daily, monthly, and quarterly operational reporting requirements, detailing customer funds on deposit, # of retail and ECP forex customers that are active, whether they are US or foreign domiciled, and the percentage of non discretionary accounts that were profitable vs non-profitable among other things. Unaudited financial statements are filed monthly and audited financial statements are filed annually. Failure to comply with these NFA requirements can result in severe disciplinary actions as well as substantial fines and penalties.
There are risk-lovers and there are risk-haters, but the best traders will take the risk as long as they get paid for it.
TheLastBear
Aug 08 2012 at 11:50
186 příspěvků
A sophisticated trader will always make money regardless of market conditions. Sure, to the majority it will be always useless but that is not the fault of the markets, rather the fault and failure of the individual.
Pax puts the X in Forex.
sihabuddin
Aug 13 2012 at 06:44
6 příspěvků
TheLastBear posted:
A sophisticated trader will always make money regardless of market conditions. Sure, to the majority it will be always useless but that is not the fault of the markets, rather the fault and failure of the individual.

5% people control 95% others because they have 95% money.
No Sacrifice, No Victory (Transformer 2007), My Motto: less Risk, more Victory
TheLastBear
Aug 13 2012 at 13:16
186 příspěvků
sihabuddin posted:
TheLastBear posted:
A sophisticated trader will always make money regardless of market conditions. Sure, to the majority it will be always useless but that is not the fault of the markets, rather the fault and failure of the individual.

5% people control 95% others because they have 95% money.

Sure, and your point is...?
Pax puts the X in Forex.
sihabuddin
Aug 13 2012 at 14:19
6 příspěvků
My point is : i like your statement, and as a trader we have to be a sophisticated trader and learn how 5% grow their money. 😎.

is there anyone has an access or materials how they grow their money especially in FX market? or sharable account here?

GBU
No Sacrifice, No Victory (Transformer 2007), My Motto: less Risk, more Victory
Jos (liquidityFX)
Aug 13 2012 at 20:42
61 příspěvků
the traders that make an actual living (or more) will rarely post here. Why would they?

And if you're not one of those, I suggest you put your funds in a PAMM that has a good average performance to your liking for at least 6 months. They make more money cuz they can trade a higher volume, and you can make more money because they actually know what they're doing :)

I have money in at least 5 different PAMMs at LiteForex, but this should in no way be taken as an advertisement as there are several good brokers with decent PAMM systems.
When you fall you learn, then you get up and you try again until you master it.
sihabuddin
Aug 14 2012 at 06:49
6 příspěvků
hi very nice view. and nice discussion.

' the traders that make an actual living (or more) will rarely post here. Why would they?'
i agree too with your statement. I know some great trader from my country and they do trading for a living. i found the same philosophy : stay low. but their profit is very very high.

'because they actually know what they're doing :)'

I think most traders can't control their fear and greed as part of knowing themselves...

I have not tried a PAMM system because I don't know the code, the inside of the PAMM.
No Sacrifice, No Victory (Transformer 2007), My Motto: less Risk, more Victory
TheLastBear
Aug 14 2012 at 08:28
186 příspěvků
Just do an online search for PAMM accounts and you get a short insight. I never post about how I make my money in the market, but rather join a general discussion or start one. As you will be able to tell I do not even share my performance here. My best free advise is that you do the hard work and learn how to trade yourself or find someone you are comfortable with to manage your money for you.
Pax puts the X in Forex.
James_Bond
Aug 14 2012 at 12:52
556 příspěvků
TheLastBear posted:
Just do an online search for PAMM accounts and you get a short insight. I never post about how I make my money in the market, but rather join a general discussion or start one. As you will be able to tell I do not even share my performance here. My best free advise is that you do the hard work and learn how to trade yourself or find someone you are comfortable with to manage your money for you.

I would watch out from those pamm accounts (or at least study them carefully), as most brokers do not filter out the bad traders since they're looking to increase trading volumes.
TheLastBear
Aug 16 2012 at 08:39
186 příspěvků
James_Bond posted:
TheLastBear posted:
Just do an online search for PAMM accounts and you get a short insight. I never post about how I make my money in the market, but rather join a general discussion or start one. As you will be able to tell I do not even share my performance here. My best free advise is that you do the hard work and learn how to trade yourself or find someone you are comfortable with to manage your money for you.

I would watch out from those pamm accounts (or at least study them carefully), as most brokers do not filter out the bad traders since they're looking to increase trading volumes.

I never used a PAMM, but people do like them. I have always done my own trading, but can't say that I have not played with the idea to trade for other people on a small scale.
Pax puts the X in Forex.
Jos (liquidityFX)
Aug 16 2012 at 08:50
61 příspěvků
Agreed on the above, it took me two years to go from doing my own PAMM's to also investing in others to diversify. It's pretty scary to throw money at someone you don't know and you don't know how or what they're trading with. You do have to check them very carefully, and indeed check what the broker is showing you about the PAMM. One very important thing I always check is the floating drawdown.
When you fall you learn, then you get up and you try again until you master it.
James_Bond
Aug 16 2012 at 12:55
556 příspěvků
liquidityFX posted:
Agreed on the above, it took me two years to go from doing my own PAMM's to also investing in others to diversify. It's pretty scary to throw money at someone you don't know and you don't know how or what they're trading with. You do have to check them very carefully, and indeed check what the broker is showing you about the PAMM. One very important thing I always check is the floating drawdown.

Another important factor your can't verify is if the trader is a professional trader or just a kid. I'm not saying you can't find young talent, however if the trader is still busy with school homework, it can distract him from trading which can lead to disastrous results.
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