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Any Jesse Livermore fans out there?

Ruben Bernat (Rubn)
Sep 13 2012 at 16:18
posts 85
Hi guys, im a big Jesse Livermore fan myself, actually he is my idol and I read everything I can about him, what do you guys think of him? Do you like his strategy of betting big on the markets?


Preservation of capital and home runs.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Sep 14 2012 at 00:40
posts 724
He died penniless. Committed suicide. So no, I do not like his strategy of betting big on markets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Lauriston_Livermore

'A lifelong history of clinical depression had become the dominant factor in his final years.'


PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Sep 14 2012 at 00:45
posts 724
We live in a different time, a time where it is possible for you to be at the beach while your machine mercilessly milks cents second by second from the market gyrations in minute trades that doesn't really carry any risk. Not really necessary to take big risks these days to earn the big bucks.

In the old days the work load would have been impossible, these days not so....not even breaking a sweat.

James_Bond
Sep 14 2012 at 07:58
posts 556
TheCyclist posted:
He died penniless. Committed suicide. So no, I do not like his strategy of betting big on markets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Lauriston_Livermore

'A lifelong history of clinical depression had become the dominant factor in his final years.'



How is it possible to lose such amounts?

'Most notably, he was worth $3 million and $100 million after the 1907 and 1929 market crashes, respectively. He subsequently lost both fortunes'

Maybe he was lucky betting the farm a few times which is how he made (and lost) his fortunes?

PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Sep 14 2012 at 14:38
posts 724
Whatever it was, it didn't work.

I'd most likely punch out as well after the third insolvency. Point being, the problem with being a hero is that they're normally dead. Most medals are awarded post posthumous.

If you end up in the thick of things and it's down to the wire, sure, then say bugger it, and the kids get the medal.

Trading though, is about the next day. It's about staying in the game. And Jesse Livemore didn't stay in the game. He bailed. He couldn't face the next day.


PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Sep 14 2012 at 14:48
posts 724
That said I don't believe the trading super stars trade like that anymore. It's all HF stuff. Small repetitive profits at extreme volumes.

Ruben Bernat (Rubn)
Sep 14 2012 at 20:10
posts 85
I dont agree with your opinions at all, Jesse Livermore managed to stay in the game from the age of 14, till his dead ( 63 years old) , making and losing millions thru his lifetime , he made a fortune trading his own money, and after his first bankrupcy he bought 800,000 usd worth of annualities (to make sure that if he ever lose all his money again, he would have money to live and eat for him and his family), I think that you guys just think different, but the man deserves some respect.

Preservation of capital and home runs.
Ruben Bernat (Rubn)
Sep 14 2012 at 20:28
posts 85
James_Bond posted:


Maybe he was lucky betting the farm a few times which is how he made (and lost) his fortunes?


Naaaaaah man, I dont think luck has any to do with he making all those millions, he was the best tape reader back then, some say that he was luck enough to live in 'easy times for trading (the big bear crashes and the strong trending bull markets) but in his book: Remeniscenses of a stock operator, you can read how he managed to turn 500 into 20,000 and then 25,000 into 250,000 in a few trading weeks, thats not luck, not for me, those are skills (in my opinion).

Preservation of capital and home runs.
Ruben Bernat (Rubn)
Sep 14 2012 at 20:41
posts 85
TheCyclist posted:
Whatever it was, it didn't work.

I'd most likely punch out as well after the third insolvency. Point being, the problem with being a hero is that they're normally dead. Most medals are awarded post posthumous.

If you end up in the thick of things and it's down to the wire, sure, then say bugger it, and the kids get the medal.

Trading though, is about the next day. It's about staying in the game. And Jesse Livemore didn't stay in the game. He bailed. He couldn't face the next day.



He killed himself, he was depresed and had a clinical disease: amnesia nervous breakdown. . I dont think the market has anything to do with that, he was known for being a womanizer and had a 3rd wife, so , other problems aside from the market may be the thing (?).

Also, he didnt died broke, he was still worth 5 million ( that is, OLD DOLLARS). Remember that he was once worth 100 million ( 2billion in today's dollars)

Preservation of capital and home runs.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Sep 15 2012 at 03:19
posts 724
Well - I don't want to follow in those footsteps. Not if it leads to depression and death.

I then end up asking myself, well who is my trading hero...? And I don't have one. There's no one that really stands out at this point that I respect as a trader.

The systems are so crooked now days, you have exchanges flashing information to preferred clients, the HFT guys are raiding the order book. I still remember those Enron guys calling the power station and having them switch off production so they can hike the prices, never mind the little struggling business that goes under because they can't operate half the day.

If I have to respect anyone, it's the really small trader, sitting in a third world country, in some internet cafe eeking a living out of a small account.

Those are the guys I really respect, I can't do that. Yet those guys are around. Doing 30%, sometimes 50%, just to pay the bills at the end of them month.

Financialarts
Sep 16 2012 at 17:43
posts 134
TheCyclist posted:
Well - I don't want to follow in those footsteps. Not if it leads to depression and death.

I then end up asking myself, well who is my trading hero...? And I don't have one. There's no one that really stands out at this point that I respect as a trader.

The systems are so crooked now days, you have exchanges flashing information to preferred clients, the HFT guys are raiding the order book. I still remember those Enron guys calling the power station and having them switch off production so they can hike the prices, never mind the little struggling business that goes under because they can't operate half the day.

If I have to respect anyone, it's the really small trader, sitting in a third world country, in some internet cafe eeking a living out of a small account.

Those are the guys I really respect, I can't do that. Yet those guys are around. Doing 30%, sometimes 50%, just to pay the bills at the end of them month.


good points!

I wonder why the current system of trading still exist.

I am the change in the market that causes you to lose :p / Watch out before I negative pip you! ^^
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Sep 17 2012 at 10:14
posts 724
Wont for long. Any system this broken will fail. I think Spain is going to be the trigger. That and the failed harvests this year. Next year we have no ATM's, and no food. Runaway inflation. Stage is perfectly set for hyper-inflationary depression.

Think the Muslims are angry now? Wait till they figure out America couldn't grow food this year and that's why they going to starve. Cause the people they throwing with rocks normally sell them food.

Oh joy...!

Frank
Clash
Sep 18 2012 at 12:07
posts 40
I'm from Minnesota and my family doesn't grow soybeans, but it was easy to see this was the worst drought since 1988. I was born then so I wouldn't know about that year, but I hear the talk on the farm network radio report every morning in my area and how they compared it to back then. Our state actually got by in fairly good graces compared to the rest of the midwest, but yeah it can't happen again otherwise things are going to get difficult. Anybody who had soybeans in the bins were headin' to the elevators earlier this summer.

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