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Should Newbies turn to signal providers rather than trading themselves?

Ben Scoobert
forex_trader_[921]
Mar 08 2017 at 11:23
posts 276
sid4spd posted:
Hi Guys,

I am about to start my live trading forex journey.Every thing was planned out untill I came to this site and found this thing called 'Auto Trader' and 'signal start service' all promising hugh % returns for my principal...

using my strategy and trading manually, I could at the most get 2% a month...but these traders claim far higher returns..

Question is should a new trader allocate small capital and 'learn' to manage risk on that account and go for these signal providers or continue to hone their own strategy?

Any one experienced with these Bots are welcome to answer!


10 years ago when I first started in forex I would have said there is only 1 way to trade. Manual. MT4 was around then but all the EA and signal sellers were so full of scam and BS which couldn't be verified.

Nowadays there are still the scams out there but an honest signal provider or EA seller will be happy to show you their history and hide biting.

I was looking at a very high achiever on signal start. No losses ever, alarm bells are ringing, 2 minutes later I see why. They never close a loser and just let them run, hidden.

I am waiting for my live account to have enough history to provide autotrade on this site, but the signal is now available on signal start.

Be so careful what you sign up for, people will take your money in a blink. Do your research.

xgavinc
Mar 08 2017 at 11:43
posts 235
Be so careful what you sign up for, people will take your money in a blink. Do your research.


I noticed this as well, very gullible (stupid) people out there. A guy posted his 'history', something like 8 trades, made an average of a few dollars per trade (with some losses) and all from a one day result set... and people are cheering him on about his superb 'achievement'. In my view a load of rubbish. I worked out that if he continues at that rate without any issues (and other traders here will vouch for me that a year never is 'issue free') he will reach $100,000.00's in approximately 30 years (with no withdrawals).

For every loss there should be at least an equal and opposite profit.
kieran (snapdragon1970)
Mar 08 2017 at 11:46
posts 1945
xgavinc posted:
Be so careful what you sign up for, people will take your money in a blink. Do your research.


I noticed this as well, very gullible (stupid) people out there. A guy posted his 'history', something like 8 trades, made an average of a few dollars per trade (with some losses) and all from a one day result set... and people are cheering him on about his superb 'achievement'. In my view a load of rubbish. I worked out that if he continues at that rate without any issues (and other traders here will vouch for me that a year never is 'issue free') he will reach $100,000.00's in approximately 30 years (with no withdrawals).


Yeah and some have many accounts and post to themselves...

"They mistook leverage with genius".
Tiffany (TiffanyK)
Mar 09 2017 at 07:20
posts 427
Well this is not something new. People always love winners and champions. They will see a trader winning few trades and they will say “what a professional” and follow him. But then when they see a verified trader with ups and downs – they will be skeptical because he has some losses .. what a pity

Accept the loss as experience
Ben Scoobert
forex_trader_[921]
Mar 11 2017 at 19:31
posts 276
183.81 NinjaTrainer 4
327.6 ATLAS (Tickmill) 11
174.69 New Trading 3
218.26 Scorpion 7
172.4 4000K 2
265.68 Rain-Maker 8
200 Forex Investing 5
301.77 Vine 10
298.75 FX BSR 9
160.83 PepperStone 1
209.32 NightProfit ICMarkets 6

Briefly, here is a list of the autotrade accounts from myfxbook I'd consider, subject to further study, as they have a good risk/reward ratio. On this list the 1st number denotes the risk reward ratio, the lower the better, the last number is just them ranked in order by this number. Again this is a brief list, I may have put some in there that are too volatile and I may have missed an odd one that is acceptable, despite saying over 30% drawdown. Myfxbook has an odd formula for calculating drawdown. For example, if you had a trade that opened and ran to 100% profit of your account, but you didn't close it and it ran back to break even, your account would show 100% drawdown.

The most profitable isn't always the best, it may be profitable but risk your entire account at every trade, somethign like this will inevitably just pop.

If you look on the signal start site there are some ridiculous claims of profit by people who have manipulated the figures on a cent account. Depending when you deposit/withdraw affects the stats of the site and they have fiddled to perfection to make things look infinitely better than they are. SCAMS everywhere.

There are also people with empty heads, with no ideas of their own, they will blindly drag you along with them as they know no better than to follow the last scam they bought as they don't have the intelligence to distinguish the wood from the trees.

stevehu10
Mar 14 2017 at 07:17
posts 24
sid4spd posted:
Hi Guys,

I am about to start my live trading forex journey.Every thing was planned out untill I came to this site and found this thing called 'Auto Trader' and 'signal start service' all promising hugh % returns for my principal...

using my strategy and trading manually, I could at the most get 2% a month...but these traders claim far higher returns..

Question is should a new trader allocate small capital and 'learn' to manage risk on that account and go for these signal providers or continue to hone their own strategy?

Any one experienced with these Bots are welcome to answer!


With your strategy you say you can get 2% a month have you managed to do this over a number of years? I believe the likely answer will be no.

Most people even 'signal providers' can make some positive return for up to even 6 months and I have seen people make 100%+ per month. However, these strategies don't typically last and all that is required is an event that they didn't foresee to blow the whole account.

My advise would be, yes feel free to follow a signal provider or trader. But make sure they have over one year of trading history (and even at that, that isn't much. Your HNW investors look for solid strategies typically with at least 2-3 years history.

Look at how they deal with negative trades and what their strategy is when the market turns completely against them with using past data. Like everything and all the disclaimers state, there is a risk involved in forex but your job is to minimise that risk as low as possible.

Hope this helps.

Ben Scoobert
forex_trader_[921]
Mar 14 2017 at 14:34
posts 276
Following on from my earlier analysis, I'd drop forex investing as it has no stoplosses defined, it may have some in the background but I don't like being without.


Ben Scoobert
forex_trader_[921]
Mar 14 2017 at 15:48
posts 276
183.81 NinjaTrainer 4
172.4 4000K 2
301.77 Vine 10
298.75 FX BSR 9
209.32 NightProfit ICMarkets 6

Now bearing in mind you pay 0.5 of a pip commission, these systems that offer low pip expectancy per trade are eating into your profits, so I'd cut anything with 5 or less.
So the above I'd ditch, leaving the below for now.
174.69 New Trading 3
265.68 Rain-Maker 8
327.6 ATLAS (Tickmill) 11
218.26 Scorpion 7
160.83 PepperStone 1

kieran (snapdragon1970)
Mar 14 2017 at 17:27
posts 1945
stevehu10 posted:
sid4spd posted:
Hi Guys,

I am about to start my live trading forex journey.Every thing was planned out untill I came to this site and found this thing called 'Auto Trader' and 'signal start service' all promising hugh % returns for my principal...

using my strategy and trading manually, I could at the most get 2% a month...but these traders claim far higher returns..

Question is should a new trader allocate small capital and 'learn' to manage risk on that account and go for these signal providers or continue to hone their own strategy?

Any one experienced with these Bots are welcome to answer!


With your strategy you say you can get 2% a month have you managed to do this over a number of years? I believe the likely answer will be no.

Most people even 'signal providers' can make some positive return for up to even 6 months and I have seen people make 100%+ per month. However, these strategies don't typically last and all that is required is an event that they didn't foresee to blow the whole account.

My advise would be, yes feel free to follow a signal provider or trader. But make sure they have over one year of trading history (and even at that, that isn't much. Your HNW investors look for solid strategies typically with at least 2-3 years history.

Look at how they deal with negative trades and what their strategy is when the market turns completely against them with using past data. Like everything and all the disclaimers state, there is a risk involved in forex but your job is to minimise that risk as low as possible.

Hope this helps.


Just to add to that, number of trades over period, two years of trading tells you little if they are trading once a week, one other thing this 2% will not be consistent, it does however give a target to hit, some months it will be a lot more and some it wont.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
Gabriel (GFernandez78)
Mar 15 2017 at 07:24
posts 35
So what is your answer of the question in the title of the topic? I couldn't get it from your first post 😄 Maybe the new traders should first learn to spot the signals themselves so that they can evaluate the quality of the signal providers?

Trading is like football - if you don't practice you can't win the game!
stevehu10
Mar 15 2017 at 07:27
posts 24
I agree to a certain extent. But technically if a trader is conservative with risk and accurate with his trades then the number of trades should not matter too much. Personally I'd prefer to trade with someone with around for example 800 trades or under in a 2 year spell than someone with 5000 trades. But as mentioned this is just preference.

For example you could make 4 swing trades per month win 3 of them and gain 3% for the month as opposed to perhaps increasing risk with 100's of trades with less accuracy and more exposure.

Just my 2 cents.

hjacob
Mar 15 2017 at 08:18
posts 30
Whether being a new trader or an experienced trader, signal provider should always be the second option to go for. Manual trading provides with an opportunity to manage your own risks, by trading yourself one gets sense of confidence to trade more. Undoubtedly losses will be there but learning from them would help you become a successful trader in future. In my view signal providers option is to be opted only when you don’t have much time to trade and wants to earn some extra income.

hjacob
Apr 12 2017 at 08:19
posts 30
bp395 posted:
hjacob posted:
Whether being a new trader or an experienced trader, signal provider should always be the second option to go for. Manual trading provides with an opportunity to manage your own risks, by trading yourself one gets sense of confidence to trade more. Undoubtedly losses will be there but learning from them would help you become a successful trader in future. In my view signal providers option is to be opted only when you don’t have much time to trade and wants to earn some extra income.


I must admit I had never heard such advice. Even if you are a full-time trader, you may need a hand with signal suppliers to get us in the lead.
I disagree a little of your opinion because I think it is a bit radical.


Well manual trading worked for me but yea I do not deny the importance of signal providers. It’s just that I prefer manual trading.

mlawson71
Apr 13 2017 at 13:21
posts 1487
I think it's a good idea to at least have a basic understanding why your signal provider is making the trading decisions they're making before using their services.

SureProfitFX
Apr 16 2017 at 06:46
posts 10
sid4spd posted:
Hi Guys,

I am about to start my live trading forex journey.Every thing was planned out untill I came to this site and found this thing called 'Auto Trader' and 'signal start service' all promising hugh % returns for my principal...

using my strategy and trading manually, I could at the most get 2% a month...but these traders claim far higher returns..

Question is should a new trader allocate small capital and 'learn' to manage risk on that account and go for these signal providers or continue to hone their own strategy?

Any one experienced with these Bots are welcome to answer!


Hi,

On my 1 year trading the market live (I did not trade demo) there where a lot of challenges that I encounter and a lot of mistakes I made. Documenting those mistakes give me a chance to generate strategy that makes me profitable.

What I learned so far;

1. Novice trader can easily be drag to the loop hole of opening counter trades during early trend reversal that leads to triggering of stop loss.

2. I am not against stop loss but I don't use stop loss. Instead I plan my trade on a higher time frame and trigger my entry on lower time frame. I manage my risk by always closing losing trade nearly to break even.

3. I don't do scalping. Scalping can lead to huge loses if you will be caught by sudden trend movement. I treat my trade as an investment.

4. I don't over use leverage. This can lead to margin call if you have smaller account. I always use 0.01 lot on my trades.

5. I do use grid and martingale. It is effective on higher time frame with proper money and risk management.

6. I don't use complicated technical analysis. I make my chart as simple as possible by just using bollinger band and moving average.

7. I prefer manual trading with certain rules to follow. I don't trade with emotions. I am just following my rules.

Each trader has its own style and rules on trading.

Plan your TRADE - Trade your PLAN
kieran (snapdragon1970)
Apr 16 2017 at 08:46
posts 1945
stevehu10 posted:
I agree to a certain extent. But technically if a trader is conservative with risk and accurate with his trades then the number of trades should not matter too much. Personally I'd prefer to trade with someone with around for example 800 trades or under in a 2 year spell than someone with 5000 trades. But as mentioned this is just preference.

For example you could make 4 swing trades per month win 3 of them and gain 3% for the month as opposed to perhaps increasing risk with 100's of trades with less accuracy and more exposure.

Just my 2 cents.


Some companies wont evaluate your performance unless you have at least a 1000 trades.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
kieran (snapdragon1970)
Apr 16 2017 at 08:51
posts 1945
snapdragon1970 posted:
stevehu10 posted:
sid4spd posted:
Hi Guys,

I am about to start my live trading forex journey.Every thing was planned out untill I came to this site and found this thing called 'Auto Trader' and 'signal start service' all promising hugh % returns for my principal...

using my strategy and trading manually, I could at the most get 2% a month...but these traders claim far higher returns..

Question is should a new trader allocate small capital and 'learn' to manage risk on that account and go for these signal providers or continue to hone their own strategy?

Any one experienced with these Bots are welcome to answer!


With your strategy you say you can get 2% a month have you managed to do this over a number of years? I believe the likely answer will be no.

Most people even 'signal providers' can make some positive return for up to even 6 months and I have seen people make 100%+ per month. However, these strategies don't typically last and all that is required is an event that they didn't foresee to blow the whole account.

My advise would be, yes feel free to follow a signal provider or trader. But make sure they have over one year of trading history (and even at that, that isn't much. Your HNW investors look for solid strategies typically with at least 2-3 years history.

Look at how they deal with negative trades and what their strategy is when the market turns completely against them with using past data. Like everything and all the disclaimers state, there is a risk involved in forex but your job is to minimise that risk as low as possible.

Hope this helps.


Just to add to that, number of trades over period, two years of trading tells you little if they are trading once a week, one other thing this 2% will not be consistent, it does however give a target to hit, some months it will be a lot more and some it wont.





"They mistook leverage with genius".
darren (darrengreg)
Apr 19 2017 at 08:24
posts 37
I agree! There’s no harm in trading through signal providers. But the trick is to find the accurate and reliable signals that avoid losses and maximize your profits.

kieran (snapdragon1970)
Apr 19 2017 at 19:49
posts 1945
Was Zuckerberg's comment a shot across Apples bow?

"They mistook leverage with genius".
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