Discussion Volatility Trader - 1:4 Demo

*** VOLATILITY TRADER Demo Account for MyFXBook Contest -- Mirroring Our LIVE Account Trades ***

NOTE: The plan was to trade this demo at 1:4 ratio base order sizing (the standard VT money management sizing) but given the 1:200 leverage, the MM was changed to 1:8 ratio base order sizing.

Note that while VT is a fully automated trading engine, a number of trades were closed manually today (2010.05.06) during the economic pandemonium that saw GbpUsd swinging up and down 150 pips in about 10 minutes. Normally this would not be done, but as the system was leaning somewhat heavily on the short side of the market it was decided to close out a series of short in-the-money positions manually.

Please visit the LIVE account Volatility Trader reporting here in MyFXBook for the performance of the LIVE ACCOUNT VOLATILITY TRADER Engine.

Theo Buitendyk,
[email protected]

VT Signals Service -- 'Managed Accounts Starting at $5K'

Hey!!

I just noticed that if one sorts the contest systems by PIPs, Volatility Trader is in second place right now!

I propose we change the rules to have winning system determined by PIPs, not $.

Propose that for the next contest... i don't think they can change the rules now...
Good job with the account guys, good luck this whole month!
Regards.

JC

Hai,😎
Congratulations!!!
go buddy go....

Have had to close many trades manually for most of the contest period due to anomalous market activity... Tried to update the trading type to 'Mixed' from 'Automatic' but the system is not letting me.

Anyway, it's officially 'mixed' lately with all the manual closes.
 

I just noticed that we're in 5th place even though we've got something like 2,600 pips. OK, that's just wrong! 😂

I've just taken my revenge by increasing our order sizing by 150% 😁

tbuitendyk posted:
    I just noticed that we're in 5th place even though we've got something like 2,600 pips. OK, that's just wrong! 😂

I've just taken my revenge by increasing our order sizing by 150% 😁

Looking good. Even with 5th place your trading is excellent. Great job!

You run managed accounts and you're suggesting that pips matter more than %age gain/loss? This is ridiculous, anyone with a few months trading experience knows it is profit or loss that matters not number of pips bagged. If I had a system that was profitable with 20 pip stops and 10 pip take profits and someone else had one that was profitable with 150 pip stops and 75 pip take profits, they could bag a lot more pips than me but i could still win in terms of percent profit on account.

Despite the weird logic, congratulations on results to date.

Hmmm, this was the first account of these competition entries I looked at, after looking at some of the others I feel I should qualify my above statements so as not to seem I am bagging you personally.

Some of the accounts are in negative pips but positive territory - they must be doing some serious martingaling or some kind of tripped out MM.

These competitions are fun, but they only encourage people to go mad on the risk in the hope of winning. What is worse is that people see these accounts and go OMG I wanna make that much and start asking about managed accounts et. al. and the end result is that people end up disappointed and/or their accounts get blown all because they focus on reward first and forget all about risk ie greed is the driving factor.

The only way for any of these contests to really show any honest and realistic results and comparison is if traders are forced to use a determined stop loss AND a determined risk relative to that stop for example max 5% risk per trade.

Otherwise the competitions will continue to be what they are, nothing more than games. Anyone who knows this business knows people who treat trading as a game end up food for the lions.

Despite all this, rules are rules, you are playing according to them and I wish you the best of luck.

ups 😲 Whats up with the perormance?

forexample posted:
    Hmmm, this was the first account of these competition entries I looked at, after looking at some of the others I feel I should qualify my above statements so as not to seem I am bagging you personally.

Some of the accounts are in negative pips but positive territory - they must be doing some serious martingaling or some kind of tripped out MM.

These competitions are fun, but they only encourage people to go mad on the risk in the hope of winning. What is worse is that people see these accounts and go OMG I wanna make that much and start asking about managed accounts et. al. and the end result is that people end up disappointed and/or their accounts get blown all because they focus on reward first and forget all about risk ie greed is the driving factor.

The only way for any of these contests to really show any honest and realistic results and comparison is if traders are forced to use a determined stop loss AND a determined risk relative to that stop for example max 5% risk per trade.

Otherwise the competitions will continue to be what they are, nothing more than games. Anyone who knows this business knows people who treat trading as a game end up food for the lions.

Despite all this, rules are rules, you are playing according to them and I wish you the best of luck.

Such gambling contest will discourage more people than motivate them, bc the majority will feel like losers. Only a few will learn the lesson: greed and hope are their worst enemies when it comes to trading😈

Hmm...

It appears that we've taken a margin call in our demo account. That's what happens when you focus on % gain too much and forget about pips. 😀

Anyway, while I was busy with real money account management I totally forgot that I had this demo running 150% higher risk than previous. So when I brought the new signals set online for our live accounts (which run at sane sizing and risk factors by the way) I forgot that the extra signals and extreme high percentage could combine to serve us an m/c.

(Rest assured that we do not manage real accounts this way...)

Which brings me to my point about pips being more relevant to performance than % gain. What can I say? My opinion is that net pips gives a more standardized performance measure than gain% in $ as the latter can be easily manipulated; while it is harder to fake the former. But that's just my opinion, and forexample is entitled to his as well.

By the way, I just put the demo account sizing back where it was previously, down to 0.2 multiplier from the 150% bigger 0.5 multiplier I used to blow-up the account with the extra signals. Not that it really matters anymore, but may as well make things more realistic again.

For the record, I will be happy to participate again in another contest if pip earnings are used as the measure of success, not % gain.

Sorry T.B., it makes no sense.. in the real world as well as in the Forex market success doesnt get measured in pips. Pips don't buy food, clothes, cars and houses. Profit in $ does.😉

DOnt try to take revenge on Markets by increse on lots and risk it will easily swallow your money T.B

pc8multifx posted:
    Sorry T.B., it makes no sense..

Perhaps not to you.

Option 1:

a) 1:5 leveraging risk: 100 pips earned today, 150 pips lost tomorrow, 200 pips earned the next day.
b) 1:5 leveraging reward: eat bread today, tomorrow, and the next day.

or

Option 2:

a) 1:400 leveraging risk: 100 pips earned today, 150 pips lost tomorrow, quit trading because your funds are gone.
b) 1:400 leveraging reward: eat steak today and go on a diet tomorrow.

We earn pips.

We use Option 1 to convert pips to $ at a rate that is safe, not at a rate that is necessary to win a contest like this. To make 500% in one month (or whatever non-real-world rate) implies the risk of margining the account like in this contest. That's all I'm saying.

Any monkey can convert pips to $. The hard part is converting currency movement into pips. That's why I maintain that a better contest would measure success in pips, not $. This is not 'sour grapes' - it's simply my philosophy of trading, which apparently does not make sense to you, but it does to me and to our clients who earned around $100k this month...

I knew the rules when trying it out and really, I don't mind the result -- it's just that I'm not interested in seeing how far I can push the risk to win a contest as that does not reveal system performance. That reveals who gets lucky in the end, that's all.

kishorejoga posted:
    DOnt try to take revenge on Markets by increse on lots and risk it will easily swallow your money T.B

Don't worry Kish -- I'm playing with play money here. This has nothing to do with how we trade real money accounts!

tbuitendyk posted:
    Hmm...

It appears that we've taken a margin call in our demo account. That's what happens when you focus on % gain too much and forget about pips.

No, its what happens when you focus on % gain and forget about RISK.

tbuitendyk posted:
    

pc8multifx posted:
    Sorry T.B., it makes no sense..

Perhaps not to you.

Option 1:

a) 1:5 leveraging risk: 100 pips earned today, 150 pips lost tomorrow, 200 pips earned the next day.
b) 1:5 leveraging reward: eat bread today, tomorrow, and the next day.

or

Option 2:

a) 1:400 leveraging risk: 100 pips earned today, 150 pips lost tomorrow, quit trading because your funds are gone.
b) 1:400 leveraging reward: eat steak today and go on a diet tomorrow.

We earn pips.

We use Option 1 to convert pips to $ at a rate that is safe, not at a rate that is necessary to win a contest like this. To make 500% in one month (or whatever non-real-world rate) implies the risk of margining the account like in this contest. That's all I'm saying.

Any monkey can convert pips to $. The hard part is converting currency movement into pips. That's why I maintain that a better contest would measure success in pips, not $. This is not 'sour grapes' - it's simply my philosophy of trading, which apparently does not make sense to you, but it does to me and to our clients who earned around $100k this month...

I knew the rules when trying it out and really, I don't mind the result -- it's just that I'm not interested in seeing how far I can push the risk to win a contest as that does not reveal system performance. That reveals who gets lucky in the end, that's all.

Option 3:

8670 pips lost, 7.000 bucks profit😄 not even a smart chimp could convert these negative pips to $$ to buy bananas...
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/pc8multifx/xpipstrendmulti/15435

BTW I do hunt for pips with other systems too, like you do. Its just to demonstrate there are several ways to win the race..and I'm NOT referring to a childish contest😉

May the pips always be with you!