Americans should read this...
May 10, 2012 at 14:26
Vues 1,112
11 Replies
forex_trader_28881
Membre depuis Feb 07, 2011
posts 724
May 10, 2012 at 14:26
https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/05/08/bloomberg_articlesM2B0ZW6JTSEG01-M3QL4.DTL
Sorry guys, I feel for you...but it is action time. Got to get off that chair and go do something about this or lose what America was supposed to be.
Sorry guys, I feel for you...but it is action time. Got to get off that chair and go do something about this or lose what America was supposed to be.
forex_trader_28881
Membre depuis Feb 07, 2011
posts 724
May 10, 2012 at 14:33
Please note that it is your government that is making it so difficult for the rest of the world to do business with you that they rather chose not to. Main stream business. Read the names in that list. It's just easier and you simply don't have that much money anymore. The wealth is in the east now.
If you guys don't catch this and fix this, your future is bleak indeed.
If you guys don't catch this and fix this, your future is bleak indeed.
May 10, 2012 at 18:00
(édité May 10, 2012 at 18:08)
This is crazy part, 'The definition includes citizens, green-card holders and non-Americans deemed U.S. residents by being present in the country for at least 183 days over a three-year period, which makes them subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income, according to the IRS.'
Even being a foreign national, if you spend an average of 2 months in the US for the last 3 years, your worldwide income is taxable. I was thinking about how ridiculous it would be that the income generated in the remainder 30 months spent working elsewhere would be taxable by the IRS, but then it can't be that dumb. Double taxation gets called into play and I recall reading something about how it will only be taxed if you are not paying taxes in your home country. Sorry, just having a conversation with myself.
Even being a foreign national, if you spend an average of 2 months in the US for the last 3 years, your worldwide income is taxable. I was thinking about how ridiculous it would be that the income generated in the remainder 30 months spent working elsewhere would be taxable by the IRS, but then it can't be that dumb. Double taxation gets called into play and I recall reading something about how it will only be taxed if you are not paying taxes in your home country. Sorry, just having a conversation with myself.
Consistency above all.
May 10, 2012 at 18:37
There's also a hint of protectionism here, on 2 levels.
1. The incumbent American banks having no choice but to be compliant, have their revenue increased from American investors exiting (or being rejected) from non-compliant non-US banks. Of course, it can construed that being compliant is an open choice, however, it is a choice where the foreign bank has to consciously decide to pick customers whose profit margin generated is less. And any business that chooses increased revenue over better margins is typically in a bad situation, where it needs to cover fixed costs more than increase its profits. So basically American banks benefit from this legislation.
2. If it is difficult to invest in non-US assets, where are American tax residents going to place their funds in? So basically America benefits.
All in, quite smart, but strongly hypocritical.
1. The incumbent American banks having no choice but to be compliant, have their revenue increased from American investors exiting (or being rejected) from non-compliant non-US banks. Of course, it can construed that being compliant is an open choice, however, it is a choice where the foreign bank has to consciously decide to pick customers whose profit margin generated is less. And any business that chooses increased revenue over better margins is typically in a bad situation, where it needs to cover fixed costs more than increase its profits. So basically American banks benefit from this legislation.
2. If it is difficult to invest in non-US assets, where are American tax residents going to place their funds in? So basically America benefits.
All in, quite smart, but strongly hypocritical.
Consistency above all.
May 11, 2012 at 18:51
This is an example of the fallout to be expected.
Facebook Co-Founder Saverin Renounces Citizenship
https://www.cnbc.com/id/47389619
Facebook Co-Founder Saverin Renounces Citizenship
https://www.cnbc.com/id/47389619
Consistency above all.
forex_trader_28881
Membre depuis Feb 07, 2011
posts 724
May 14, 2012 at 00:07
Ya I'm not sure of it's that easy. From what I understand USA is the only government in the world that can force you to keep your citizenship if they believe you are trying to renounce it for tax reasons...
May 14, 2012 at 08:15
(édité May 14, 2012 at 08:15)
I imagine it will be difficult to force anyone to do so. On threat of incarceration? Wouldn't really matter if you are already a citizen of another place.
I suppose if it is labelled a crime and if the new residential country has a extradition treaty with the US then it might be possible. But I think it would be a stretch.
And Saverin was from Brazil to being with.
I suppose if it is labelled a crime and if the new residential country has a extradition treaty with the US then it might be possible. But I think it would be a stretch.
And Saverin was from Brazil to being with.
Consistency above all.
forex_trader_28881
Membre depuis Feb 07, 2011
posts 724
May 14, 2012 at 09:02
(édité May 14, 2012 at 09:02)
All I can say is thank **** I'm not American...those guys need to riot in the streets to get their freedom back.
forex_trader_43716
Membre depuis Aug 06, 2011
posts 345
May 16, 2012 at 20:51
How typical of government these days...the BIG guys are allowed to do the damage, often in bed with the government, but the little guy pays the price time and time again. Why on earth American's are prohibited from trading Gold and Silver, for example, is just beyond my comprehension. How did the free enterprise centre of the world become the nanny state it is right now? It is an insult to America's forefathers!
Jun 16, 2012 at 09:46
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Yes, I think some rioting would do us some good. I believe that we should be made (very clearly) aware of the risks of FX trading but not regulated so much...
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Yes, I think some rioting would do us some good. I believe that we should be made (very clearly) aware of the risks of FX trading but not regulated so much...
There are risk-lovers and there are risk-haters, but the best traders will take the risk as long as they get paid for it.
Jun 18, 2012 at 10:48
Just to add some explanations about the '2 months per year for 3 years' US residence raidenworks was talking about ealier in this post, it is really in fact approx. 4 months per year as year -1 only counts for 1/3 and year -2 only counts for 1/8 of days of presence.
If you calculate the 'average' maximum presence per year you can be in the US to *NOT* be considered tax resident for 3 years, it is 125 days per year (125+125/3+125/8=182,29), which is aprox. 4 months.
An average of 126 days per year would be too much ! (126+126/3+126/8=183,75)
Raidenworks (thanks!) kindly sent me the IRS link by private message about this:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf
Page 4, under 'Substantial Presence Test'
If you calculate the 'average' maximum presence per year you can be in the US to *NOT* be considered tax resident for 3 years, it is 125 days per year (125+125/3+125/8=182,29), which is aprox. 4 months.
An average of 126 days per year would be too much ! (126+126/3+126/8=183,75)
Raidenworks (thanks!) kindly sent me the IRS link by private message about this:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf
Page 4, under 'Substantial Presence Test'
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