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FRWC - Fusion V - Alpari (By stevetrade)
The user has deleted this system.
FRWC - Fusion V - Alpari Discussion
Member Since Oct 28, 2009
1409 posts
Feb 25, 2010 at 11:52
I think I said earlier in this thread, they probably set up separate accounts for different risk settings and publicised the one that got the most without blowing. That's how I would have done the marketing ;)
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Member Since Feb 25, 2010
95 posts
Feb 25, 2010 at 12:35
Completely agree.
Still I suppose if changing the trade lot size to 0.01 from the 0.1 there should technically still be a 35.4% / 19 day gain, for the 21% risk/per HiRider trade.
Assuming we get around 1 HiRider trade a day, 35.4%/19 = 1.86%/day using 21% risk/day => 11.3 : 1 Risk-Reward Ratio.
If it's 2 HiRider trades a day, RRR = 22.6 :1
A longer running time is needed to have a better statistical performance indicator of the % gain / unit time.
I dunno, any of you guys getting better RRR's with your other bots?
Still I suppose if changing the trade lot size to 0.01 from the 0.1 there should technically still be a 35.4% / 19 day gain, for the 21% risk/per HiRider trade.
Assuming we get around 1 HiRider trade a day, 35.4%/19 = 1.86%/day using 21% risk/day => 11.3 : 1 Risk-Reward Ratio.
If it's 2 HiRider trades a day, RRR = 22.6 :1
A longer running time is needed to have a better statistical performance indicator of the % gain / unit time.
I dunno, any of you guys getting better RRR's with your other bots?
Member Since Feb 25, 2010
95 posts
Feb 25, 2010 at 14:18
There's something clearly wrong with SuperVolcano. My earlier observation that it's logic will SL at approx. -280pips is off.
I'm looking at FRWC's live run now and each of the 3 open SuperVolcano GBPJPY trades are -600 pips. That's -1800 pips. Equates to approx. -$202.50 if trading 0.01lots/$1k starting equity.
That's for 3 trades. Had it opened 4, it'd be $270, 2400 pips. 24% drawdown trading the smallest lotsize possible. Something to consider.
And since FRWC is trading 0.02lots, and it's 'lucky' to have only 3 instead of 4 open, it now has a drawdown of 40.5% off a $k base.
Will probably need to trim back the number of trades SuperVolcano can perform to maybe 2?
I dunno, the 2 most promising EA's I was looking at, Hirider and SuperVolcano are looking to be quite ridiculous in their RRR.
Studying the live test results, LMD barely broke even, Straasha's lotsizing is insane, Neg_correlation barely traded and still lost. The whole bunch does not seem to promise much.
I'm looking at FRWC's live run now and each of the 3 open SuperVolcano GBPJPY trades are -600 pips. That's -1800 pips. Equates to approx. -$202.50 if trading 0.01lots/$1k starting equity.
That's for 3 trades. Had it opened 4, it'd be $270, 2400 pips. 24% drawdown trading the smallest lotsize possible. Something to consider.
And since FRWC is trading 0.02lots, and it's 'lucky' to have only 3 instead of 4 open, it now has a drawdown of 40.5% off a $k base.
Will probably need to trim back the number of trades SuperVolcano can perform to maybe 2?
I dunno, the 2 most promising EA's I was looking at, Hirider and SuperVolcano are looking to be quite ridiculous in their RRR.
Studying the live test results, LMD barely broke even, Straasha's lotsizing is insane, Neg_correlation barely traded and still lost. The whole bunch does not seem to promise much.
forex_trader_7497
Member Since Feb 20, 2010
50 posts
Feb 25, 2010 at 14:30
(edited Feb 25, 2010 at 14:34)
Clearpaper posted:
There's something clearly wrong with SuperVolcano. My earlier observation that it's logic will SL at approx. -280pips is off.
I'm looking at FRWC's live run now and each of the 3 open SuperVolcano GBPJPY trades are -600 pips. That's -1800 pips. Equates to approx. -$202.50 if trading 0.01lots/$1k starting equity.
That's for 3 trades. Had it opened 4, it'd be $270, 2400 pips. 24% drawdown trading the smallest lotsize possible. Something to consider.
And since FRWC is trading 0.02lots, and it's 'lucky' to have only 3 instead of 4 open, it now has a drawdown of 40.5% off a $k base.
Will probably need to trim back the number of trades SuperVolcano can perform to maybe 2?
I dunno, the 2 most promising EA's I was looking at, Hirider and SuperVolcano are looking to be quite ridiculous in their RRR.
Studying the live test results, LMD barely broke even, Straasha's lotsizing is insane, Neg_correlation barely traded and still lost. The whole bunch does not seem to promise much.
SV does not have a hard stop loss unless you choose to put it. It only closes the position when the internal indicator detects a high volatility as measured by chaikin volatility. If the open trade is a long trade, then it will only close the position when the internal indicator detects a high volatility buying. The problem now is what if there's a strong selling pressure for a PROLONGED period with no considerable reversal UP. The internal indicator has to wait for a significant reversal UP before it detects a high volatility and closes the position. You can therefore sit with a trade in huge losses for a long period. Recently the selling pressure of GBP JPY is strong, and there's no noticeable strong reversal, and that's why the trade is sitting very long.
SV should be limited to 2 trades to reduce risk. For HiRider, it will be better if we can have a setting to limit each different HiRider's strategy to 1 trade. Since each strategy supposedly opens a position at different time with different criteria, then the risk can be diversified. Currently there's only one global parameter to set max # trades for all strategy, but HiRIDER has a bug (tendency) to open multiple duplicate orders of the same strategy. Imagine opening 10 trades of just one strategy, that's just insane.
Feb 25, 2010 at 14:34
stevetrade posted:
You tell me why they are blocking it. It just happened again. FXCM kicked into life and raised some Hi Rider trades, Alpari disconnected from 14:13 to 14:31, the exact time that Hi Rider was trading. I'm sorry but this is more than coincidence.
Maybe the reason is that Alpari Demo servers are being overloaded whenever Hi Rider tries to place 10 trades x 2,000 users all at the same time. I know that companies place a lot less resources to support Demo systems than Live systems. Why don't you try forcing your MT4 client to connect to another datacenter and see if that doesn't clear up your issue? Hope this idea helps you.
Member Since Feb 25, 2010
95 posts
Feb 25, 2010 at 14:55
(edited Feb 25, 2010 at 15:00)
Looking at bugboy's fxbook again, his EA opened 4 of the equivalent Supervolcano trades (around 2010.02.18 23:52 for his +0GMT server). They then closed at 2010.02.23 22:01 for a SL of around -280pips. Whether this was done manually, or via a management EA, or strict definition in Fusion's settings, I don't know.
This earlier closing allowed SuperVolcano to open 3 trades at 2010.02.23 22:03~04 (within 2-3 minutes) in the opposite direction for a current floating pip of +315 each.
Clearly a managed SL is important in maximising this EA, along with handling it's high risk.
In fact, one of my other accounts also had a similar occurrance where a few of my HiRider s2 trades got stopped out, allowing 4x HiRider s4 trades to open and hit their TP.
I believe one improvement of the EA would be to allow the setting of how many trades to open per sub-strategy and with one global limit per main strategy. I.e.:-
HiRider Global trade limit:- 10
HiRider s2 - 4
HiRider s3 - 4
HiRider s4 - 4
HiRider s5 - 4
And better, total SL per main strategy and sub-strategy(particular for those that open multiple trades. e.g:-
HiRider - 2000 pips
HiRider s2 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
HiRider s3 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
HiRider s4 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
HiRider s5 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
This earlier closing allowed SuperVolcano to open 3 trades at 2010.02.23 22:03~04 (within 2-3 minutes) in the opposite direction for a current floating pip of +315 each.
Clearly a managed SL is important in maximising this EA, along with handling it's high risk.
In fact, one of my other accounts also had a similar occurrance where a few of my HiRider s2 trades got stopped out, allowing 4x HiRider s4 trades to open and hit their TP.
I believe one improvement of the EA would be to allow the setting of how many trades to open per sub-strategy and with one global limit per main strategy. I.e.:-
HiRider Global trade limit:- 10
HiRider s2 - 4
HiRider s3 - 4
HiRider s4 - 4
HiRider s5 - 4
And better, total SL per main strategy and sub-strategy(particular for those that open multiple trades. e.g:-
HiRider - 2000 pips
HiRider s2 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
HiRider s3 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
HiRider s4 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
HiRider s5 - 200 pips/trade or up to 800 pips/event
Member Since Oct 28, 2009
1409 posts
Feb 25, 2010 at 17:21
Clearpaper posted:
Completely agree.
Still I suppose if changing the trade lot size to 0.01 from the 0.1 there should technically still be a 35.4% / 19 day gain, for the 21% risk/per HiRider trade.
Assuming we get around 1 HiRider trade a day, 35.4%/19 = 1.86%/day using 21% risk/day => 11.3 : 1 Risk-Reward Ratio.
If it's 2 HiRider trades a day, RRR = 22.6 :1
A longer running time is needed to have a better statistical performance indicator of the % gain / unit time.
I dunno, any of you guys getting better RRR's with your other bots?
My robot overall has better than 1:1 reward/risk ratio and is accurate over half the time.
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Member Since Oct 28, 2009
1409 posts
Feb 25, 2010 at 17:23
dmoser71 posted:
stevetrade posted:
You tell me why they are blocking it. It just happened again. FXCM kicked into life and raised some Hi Rider trades, Alpari disconnected from 14:13 to 14:31, the exact time that Hi Rider was trading. I'm sorry but this is more than coincidence.
Maybe the reason is that Alpari Demo servers are being overloaded whenever Hi Rider tries to place 10 trades x 2,000 users all at the same time. I know that companies place a lot less resources to support Demo systems than Live systems. Why don't you try forcing your MT4 client to connect to another datacenter and see if that doesn't clear up your issue? Hope this idea helps you.
Alpari confirmed to me that they had no problems with the servers on the day that this was happening. Interestingly enough as soon as I made them aware that I was aware of it, it stopped. I was also running other Alpari demo accounts on the same VPS on the same Alpari server and these accounts did not disconnect at the time in question.
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Feb 26, 2010 at 09:33
(edited Feb 26, 2010 at 09:33)
you can check in my systems HiRider demo ...best of all others... if you have 10k and nofear you can try on live ..only winning :)
supervolcano it's a bIG BIG sh** like LMD like Fusion.. i tried even others like VREM-2 dont even work
to sum up like someone said before it s not worth money invested..
supervolcano it's a bIG BIG sh** like LMD like Fusion.. i tried even others like VREM-2 dont even work
to sum up like someone said before it s not worth money invested..
forex_trader_7497
Member Since Feb 20, 2010
50 posts
Feb 26, 2010 at 09:45
SuperVolcano is getting the revenge. Very nice comeback. It's winning overall now.
Feb 26, 2010 at 10:23
Can anybody help me out, I have a number of the Robot´s running from the FRWC competition and my results seem to be vastly different from evrybody elses. Certainly on my Fusion account which I can compare with theres on line I have many trades that have not opened that they have and also they have closed trades that have not clsoed on my Fusion account. It also seems that they are closing rades manually, perhaps. My volcano account only has one trade open and that is a massive losing GBP JPY trade that has been running since the 18th Feb.
My biggest concerns are the massive losses that Fusion is experiencing at the moment, allegedly it is set on conservative settings and yet the losses it has on GBP JPY at the moment are astonishing. As it happens these trades did not even open on my Fusion Demo accout which is a worry as I obviously want to make sure that I am getting the same trades that they are posting on their website even if these trades are losing ones.
Basically I am pretty confused about the whole thing, I have spoken to FRWC via live chat and their help was pretty useless, I asked why my demo account would not be trading the same as their live account and they said that it was because I was not running a live account. Not sure if this makes sense. If anyboby has any info about all of this it would be greatly appreciated..
Thanks
Robint
My biggest concerns are the massive losses that Fusion is experiencing at the moment, allegedly it is set on conservative settings and yet the losses it has on GBP JPY at the moment are astonishing. As it happens these trades did not even open on my Fusion Demo accout which is a worry as I obviously want to make sure that I am getting the same trades that they are posting on their website even if these trades are losing ones.
Basically I am pretty confused about the whole thing, I have spoken to FRWC via live chat and their help was pretty useless, I asked why my demo account would not be trading the same as their live account and they said that it was because I was not running a live account. Not sure if this makes sense. If anyboby has any info about all of this it would be greatly appreciated..
Thanks
Robint
Feb 26, 2010 at 12:47
(edited Feb 26, 2010 at 13:17)
Up until now I have been a FRWC fanboy, but I am now truly disappointed in FRWC...
They are manipulating their settings to deal with the out-of-the-box performance issues of some of their robots. As of 2/25 they downgraded their supposedly-default "0.02 lot standard across-the-board" to 0.01 now. They also re-enabled Straasha selectively -- NOT a default setting in v1.2 -- in order to recoup from some of the other losses they are getting from LMD and SuperVolcano. These both go against the principles of the default live conservative settings for Fusion-V, which can be followed in the FRWC Member's Area: $1,000, lots at 0.02 across-the-board, and all settings DEFAULT (not selectively enabling Straasha when other robots fail to perform up to par).
This is a VERY sad and highly deceptive development. It is also a VERY important one. And it really is a bad sign of the future CONSISTENT profitability of this robot grouping over the long term, and perhaps even a statement on the competency of this company to protect its customers with well researched and tested products. Rushed out the door is starting to come to mind... and so is refund request in the near future if unstable results persist... :/
My advice to anyone reading this: start taking the Member's Area live conservative results for Fusion-V with a grain of salt -- BUT, keep watching it to see how the FRWC organization deals with these unexpected upsets to their robot portfolio's equity curve woes.
So far, their approach seems to be: "modify our settings ad hoc and save our own tails and the viability of our future marketing materials (the current live forward-testing results), and screw the customer -- don't provide notice of updates or issues with performance, and tell them to have patience with the results until they can no longer get a refund."
P.S. They claim that their live results are all available using the investor password via FXCM accounts. How many of you have signed up for one and input all the passwords and checked the results? **Looks around and sees VERY few hands up** Has anyone even wondered why they have not ALSO posted their ongoing, live results for each and every one of the other robots on the member web site, or publicly? Most people don't want to go to the hassle of signing up for an FXCM demo and inputting 10+ different investor passwords to sit and watch to see if the kind of manipulation we are seeing with this one account they DID post results for (Fusion-V in Member's Area) are in any way manipulated. I wouldn't be surprised if other robots have ad hoc settings adjustments as well. Doesn't FRWC realize that, while the investor password live result concept is a good and necessary one, it is simply not sufficient -- they also need to make 15 minute regular reports available widely (or at least to members, like they now are with Fusion-V).
But, alas, if they do that, it would be too easy for people to point out the problems, like I and others are doing here.
More deception, I fear. :(
They are manipulating their settings to deal with the out-of-the-box performance issues of some of their robots. As of 2/25 they downgraded their supposedly-default "0.02 lot standard across-the-board" to 0.01 now. They also re-enabled Straasha selectively -- NOT a default setting in v1.2 -- in order to recoup from some of the other losses they are getting from LMD and SuperVolcano. These both go against the principles of the default live conservative settings for Fusion-V, which can be followed in the FRWC Member's Area: $1,000, lots at 0.02 across-the-board, and all settings DEFAULT (not selectively enabling Straasha when other robots fail to perform up to par).
This is a VERY sad and highly deceptive development. It is also a VERY important one. And it really is a bad sign of the future CONSISTENT profitability of this robot grouping over the long term, and perhaps even a statement on the competency of this company to protect its customers with well researched and tested products. Rushed out the door is starting to come to mind... and so is refund request in the near future if unstable results persist... :/
My advice to anyone reading this: start taking the Member's Area live conservative results for Fusion-V with a grain of salt -- BUT, keep watching it to see how the FRWC organization deals with these unexpected upsets to their robot portfolio's equity curve woes.
So far, their approach seems to be: "modify our settings ad hoc and save our own tails and the viability of our future marketing materials (the current live forward-testing results), and screw the customer -- don't provide notice of updates or issues with performance, and tell them to have patience with the results until they can no longer get a refund."
P.S. They claim that their live results are all available using the investor password via FXCM accounts. How many of you have signed up for one and input all the passwords and checked the results? **Looks around and sees VERY few hands up** Has anyone even wondered why they have not ALSO posted their ongoing, live results for each and every one of the other robots on the member web site, or publicly? Most people don't want to go to the hassle of signing up for an FXCM demo and inputting 10+ different investor passwords to sit and watch to see if the kind of manipulation we are seeing with this one account they DID post results for (Fusion-V in Member's Area) are in any way manipulated. I wouldn't be surprised if other robots have ad hoc settings adjustments as well. Doesn't FRWC realize that, while the investor password live result concept is a good and necessary one, it is simply not sufficient -- they also need to make 15 minute regular reports available widely (or at least to members, like they now are with Fusion-V).
But, alas, if they do that, it would be too easy for people to point out the problems, like I and others are doing here.
More deception, I fear. :(
Feb 26, 2010 at 13:32
ShaKerZ posted:
Do you use Fusion V with all defaults settings ?
This ShakerZ is a illegal file sharer, We have hard evidence of him sharing our EA Fxrangebreaker on a indonesian website
We are taking legal action against him.
Fxrangebreaker team
Feb 26, 2010 at 15:06
Regarding FWRC robot, Hi rider it looks useless and very risky, Volcano, has a 5 losing operation already for a week, and hasnt close it.I will not use that piece of cr..ap
LMD which im running in AVAFX, makes about 5 to 6 trades per day, and nothing like it , with other statements I see here.
I even have a problem, where in one mt4 platform shorted , and the other (same broker) went long.
So I will be be careful with LMD, since it will have different results, so its better to go to to the casino.
Again, show that most of commercial sold robots are just a loose loose.
Its very easy to set up a company, have 400 robots compete, and of course, there will be 4 or 5 lucky ones, that because of its luck, they made money in that month,!
LMD which im running in AVAFX, makes about 5 to 6 trades per day, and nothing like it , with other statements I see here.
I even have a problem, where in one mt4 platform shorted , and the other (same broker) went long.
So I will be be careful with LMD, since it will have different results, so its better to go to to the casino.
Again, show that most of commercial sold robots are just a loose loose.
Its very easy to set up a company, have 400 robots compete, and of course, there will be 4 or 5 lucky ones, that because of its luck, they made money in that month,!
Enjoy every next minute that comes in your life!
Feb 26, 2010 at 15:19
I have just noticed a new development, the Fusion V 1.2 is no longer available and the FRWC have taken down their live results, I wonder why, is it because the Robot was performing so well. Apparently now the only version is the original 1.1a, nice of them to let us know that that is what they were doing. I received no e-mail, no notification whatsoever. So now I have a version of Fusion that is obsolete, being improved, am I to expect another updated version tomorrow, who knows. I have to say that I am getting extremely worried about these guys as there seems to be less and less communication from them on a daily basis...
Robint
Robint
Feb 26, 2010 at 15:31
(edited Feb 26, 2010 at 15:34)
Wow! You are right Robint! This was done within the past 1-2 hours, after I posted my last message! Read my previous lengthy post re: their results, and then in light of what you said, they've probably taken down their live results because THEY WEREN'T PERFORMING WELL. The drop back to v1.1a is a bit confusing, it may be that v1.1a is now what *used to be* v1.2...
This story just keeps getting better...
This story just keeps getting better...
Feb 26, 2010 at 15:39
@Raphael
I don't think HiRIDER is a total crapshoot. So far I've concluded (through live trading) that SuperVolcano, AkuKaya, Straasha-System, and VREM2 have unacceptable risk profiles, or simply lose more than win. LMD is mixed results. On some pairs it is better than others, and more research is going to need to be done to figure out which ones. My preliminary results show that EURUSD is the worst performing LMD pair. So, in sum:
HiRIDER, COBALT-FX, NEG-CORR, ZOOP, NUTCRACKER, SIMPLE = ACCEPTABLE/GOOD
LMD = UNDECIDED
STRAASHA, SUPERVOLCANO, AKUKAYA, VREM2 = UNACCEPTABLE/BAD
I don't think HiRIDER is a total crapshoot. So far I've concluded (through live trading) that SuperVolcano, AkuKaya, Straasha-System, and VREM2 have unacceptable risk profiles, or simply lose more than win. LMD is mixed results. On some pairs it is better than others, and more research is going to need to be done to figure out which ones. My preliminary results show that EURUSD is the worst performing LMD pair. So, in sum:
HiRIDER, COBALT-FX, NEG-CORR, ZOOP, NUTCRACKER, SIMPLE = ACCEPTABLE/GOOD
LMD = UNDECIDED
STRAASHA, SUPERVOLCANO, AKUKAYA, VREM2 = UNACCEPTABLE/BAD
forex_trader_7497
Member Since Feb 20, 2010
50 posts
Feb 26, 2010 at 15:45
fxroute posted:
ShaKerZ posted:
Do you use Fusion V with all defaults settings ?
This ShakerZ is a illegal file sharer, We have hard evidence of him sharing our EA Fxrangebreaker on a indonesian website
We are taking legal action against him.
Fxrangebreaker team
No wonder. He was asking for someone to send him Fusion V.2 by email before with an excuse he couldn't log into FRWC website.
forex_trader_7497
Member Since Feb 20, 2010
50 posts
Feb 26, 2010 at 16:01
(edited Feb 26, 2010 at 16:01)
zornjaso posted:
@Raphael
I don't think HiRIDER is a total crapshoot. So far I've concluded (through live trading) that SuperVolcano, AkuKaya, Straasha-System, and VREM2 have unacceptable risk profiles, or simply lose more than win. LMD is mixed results. On some pairs it is better than others, and more research is going to need to be done to figure out which ones. My preliminary results show that EURUSD is the worst performing LMD pair. So, in sum:
HiRIDER, COBALT-FX, NEG-CORR, ZOOP, NUTCRACKER, SIMPLE = ACCEPTABLE/GOOD
LMD = UNDECIDED
STRAASHA, SUPERVOLCANO, AKUKAYA, VREM2 = UNACCEPTABLE/BAD
There's a 2 month data for LMD, as well as the result of backtesting. From the backtesting, look for drawdown % for each currency pair, the mismatch data, and the profitability in general. Fusion also has forward testing data since Jan. The original developer already did all the backtesting and the report could be studied.
Data can be compiled, filtered, and analyzed. EUR USD, EUR CHF, and USD CAD are not too profitable and should be turned off. Here's the 2 month competition data result attached.
I actually find LMD to be really good if you could take out those three above.
Feb 26, 2010 at 16:18
It doesn't look good when they keep swapping Fusion versions without notification, I agree. They would make themselves look a lot better if they talked/emailed their customers with their intentions and why they were doing it. Having said that it does say on the EA Lab section of their website (where Fusion is downloaded from) 'Important: The following FRWC Section is strictly experimental.' So as far as that goes nothing is set in stone.
Here is a link to my Demo of Fusion v1.1a. I made no changes to the ea whatsoever. Lots are 0.05 and Lots Risk Reductor is 5.0.
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/pipst/frwc-fusion-v11a-alpari-demo/18138
I am also running a test on LMD on its own with recommended settings and that is currently +4.09%.
There is certainly connection/disconnection issues when using a demo account which is a real pain and which also may be contributing to peoples differing results.
Here is a link to my Demo of Fusion v1.1a. I made no changes to the ea whatsoever. Lots are 0.05 and Lots Risk Reductor is 5.0.
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/pipst/frwc-fusion-v11a-alpari-demo/18138
I am also running a test on LMD on its own with recommended settings and that is currently +4.09%.
There is certainly connection/disconnection issues when using a demo account which is a real pain and which also may be contributing to peoples differing results.
