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Profit Empire Robot (By profitrobot)
The user has made his system private.
Profit Empire Robot Discussion
Apr 24, 2014 at 00:16
i have several comments and replies. there is no right or wrong here, just a lot of different traders with different needs, situations, capital, brokers, styles and opinions. It is really not fair to judge the outcome before it happens, although it is normal human behavior to complain, and I have surely done it myself! You have all decided to put your trust and money in the hands of others. You did that for your own reasons and nobody twisted your arms. If you don't like something for any reason, you can always quit. Some other thoughts about this are:
1. I feel that PER should provide more info about how they make decisions. They need to set expectations more clearly up-front and then they should get fewer complaints when these rare situations develop. They could give more general info about their decision process without giving away their "secrets", IMHO.
2. They told me that the max trades open at once would be 7. That was not true. There is only 1 time in history when there was 8 and 1 time at 9, so it was reasonable to believe their answer that they are now holding it to 7. What is the real limit? Or is there one? This is critical information to plan your own lot sizes and to do proper money management according to your capital and what your max dd tolerance is.
3. Statements like "we know EU will hit 1.3700 on this weekend" really hurts their credibility with me because I know that nobody in the world knows that for sure. They cannot know. There is no way to know. Even the most inexperienced trader knows it is impossible to predict such things so precisely. I hope I am wrong, but i think i am not.
4. If you wanted to close trades manually at 10%, you were perfectly free and able to do so. I closed the 8 trades over a week ago because I was happy with the profit and decided to remove the time risk because I had no clue what PER would do next. Well, now we know, and I am glad I closed, even if it turns out to be wrong. I did not shut down the EA because I wanted to see what would happen. It opened trade 9 and i closed it the next day for a profit again. My total profit was $777 (lucky numbers!) on 6.45 lots at 1:888 leverage. This translates to about 77% profit, the bulk of it in 1 week, and trade 9 I closed 1 week later. My friend and partner also took his profits early. I did follow PER's advice to trade 0.5 lots per $10,000 and I set my lot sizes manually.
5. For those of you who may not know, you can stop the EA from trading but leave it running and watch it. You can also set your own TP, SL and lot sizes, you do not have to follow PER exactly. These are some things that PER should be telling us. They do provide user instructions, but they are poor quality IMHO.
So to PER - please give us more info about your decision rules, if you can, and stop making false promises that you cannot keep.
And to traders - please realize that you can take as much control as you want. You can leave all the decisions to PER, or you can make some yourselves and take appropriate action that makes sense to you. I think from the only history we have, which is pretty good, PER has done an excellent job in making profits overall. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to trust them, if and only if they will tell us the limit on the number of trades, so we can plan for our lot sizes, capital and potential drawdowns.
Thank you all very much for your attention.
1. I feel that PER should provide more info about how they make decisions. They need to set expectations more clearly up-front and then they should get fewer complaints when these rare situations develop. They could give more general info about their decision process without giving away their "secrets", IMHO.
2. They told me that the max trades open at once would be 7. That was not true. There is only 1 time in history when there was 8 and 1 time at 9, so it was reasonable to believe their answer that they are now holding it to 7. What is the real limit? Or is there one? This is critical information to plan your own lot sizes and to do proper money management according to your capital and what your max dd tolerance is.
3. Statements like "we know EU will hit 1.3700 on this weekend" really hurts their credibility with me because I know that nobody in the world knows that for sure. They cannot know. There is no way to know. Even the most inexperienced trader knows it is impossible to predict such things so precisely. I hope I am wrong, but i think i am not.
4. If you wanted to close trades manually at 10%, you were perfectly free and able to do so. I closed the 8 trades over a week ago because I was happy with the profit and decided to remove the time risk because I had no clue what PER would do next. Well, now we know, and I am glad I closed, even if it turns out to be wrong. I did not shut down the EA because I wanted to see what would happen. It opened trade 9 and i closed it the next day for a profit again. My total profit was $777 (lucky numbers!) on 6.45 lots at 1:888 leverage. This translates to about 77% profit, the bulk of it in 1 week, and trade 9 I closed 1 week later. My friend and partner also took his profits early. I did follow PER's advice to trade 0.5 lots per $10,000 and I set my lot sizes manually.
5. For those of you who may not know, you can stop the EA from trading but leave it running and watch it. You can also set your own TP, SL and lot sizes, you do not have to follow PER exactly. These are some things that PER should be telling us. They do provide user instructions, but they are poor quality IMHO.
So to PER - please give us more info about your decision rules, if you can, and stop making false promises that you cannot keep.
And to traders - please realize that you can take as much control as you want. You can leave all the decisions to PER, or you can make some yourselves and take appropriate action that makes sense to you. I think from the only history we have, which is pretty good, PER has done an excellent job in making profits overall. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to trust them, if and only if they will tell us the limit on the number of trades, so we can plan for our lot sizes, capital and potential drawdowns.
Thank you all very much for your attention.
Make it, or break it!
Apr 24, 2014 at 06:25
I thought some statistics might be interesting:
Duration (DD:HH:MM:SS) time trades open
Mean 01:20:14:48 1 day, 20 hours, 14 minutes, 48 seconds
Median 00:13:39:50 13 hours, 39 minutes, 50 seconds
Minimum 00:00:03:02 3 minutes, 2 seconds
Maximum 10:23:02:42 10 days, 23 hours, 2 minutes, 42 seconds
Count 245 245 trades
you can all look at the closed trades and see the actual distributions of times. the max of 10 days is an outlier. there are a lot of 6 days below that. the mean and the median i think are most useful. the max and min are many standard deviations away, which means high inconsistency, but this is not necessarily a bad thing.
I think that we all have to accept that in this business, regardless of the orderly and consistent periods, if you trade any system long enough, anything and everything will eventually happen. We are in another outlier event now, but let us not forget that these have been quite rare so far. I wish you all well and hope that those who are sticking with it can tolerate the dd and will be happy, happy, happy when it is over, just as PER promises we will.
Best of Luck to All.
Duration (DD:HH:MM:SS) time trades open
Mean 01:20:14:48 1 day, 20 hours, 14 minutes, 48 seconds
Median 00:13:39:50 13 hours, 39 minutes, 50 seconds
Minimum 00:00:03:02 3 minutes, 2 seconds
Maximum 10:23:02:42 10 days, 23 hours, 2 minutes, 42 seconds
Count 245 245 trades
you can all look at the closed trades and see the actual distributions of times. the max of 10 days is an outlier. there are a lot of 6 days below that. the mean and the median i think are most useful. the max and min are many standard deviations away, which means high inconsistency, but this is not necessarily a bad thing.
I think that we all have to accept that in this business, regardless of the orderly and consistent periods, if you trade any system long enough, anything and everything will eventually happen. We are in another outlier event now, but let us not forget that these have been quite rare so far. I wish you all well and hope that those who are sticking with it can tolerate the dd and will be happy, happy, happy when it is over, just as PER promises we will.
Best of Luck to All.
Make it, or break it!
Apr 24, 2014 at 07:14
I like the point 3. which is so true...
in our case... why opening sell trades when we know the signal will go up first? :)
well... from what I can see PER has good TP targets, the entry point is the problem for now.
they should starts another signal provider for those who already close their trades. because their EA is good and certainly missed some good trades during these days...
in our case... why opening sell trades when we know the signal will go up first? :)
well... from what I can see PER has good TP targets, the entry point is the problem for now.
they should starts another signal provider for those who already close their trades. because their EA is good and certainly missed some good trades during these days...
Member Since May 08, 2012
316 posts
Apr 24, 2014 at 13:38
nathanle posted:
I noticed on the master account, PER opened another trade at 1.38161. So, now there are 9 open position. Wondering why PER open another trade while in in the trading range.
You can always open another position mid grid when your "absolutely positively sure" that the trade is going to go in your favor.
Its simply more profit. What could possibly go wrong?
War is when your government tells you who the enemy is. Revolution is when you figure out, for yourself, who the enemy is.
Apr 24, 2014 at 20:49
(edited Apr 24, 2014 at 20:51)
Your refusal to get out of these trades because your TP level has not been reached is asking for trouble.
The trend has reversed again. I will gladly take 10% any time instead of a blown account.
Most of your projections on these current trades have been way off.
The trend has reversed again. I will gladly take 10% any time instead of a blown account.
Most of your projections on these current trades have been way off.
Apr 25, 2014 at 01:11
Michigander posted:nathanle posted:
I noticed on the master account, PER opened another trade at 1.38161. So, now there are 9 open position. Wondering why PER open another trade while in in the trading range.
You can always open another position mid grid when your "absolutely positively sure" that the trade is going to go in your favor.
Its simply more profit. What could possibly go wrong?
Nothing. As long as you have an infinite amount of capital to support the inevitable drawdowns!!!
Make it, or break it!
Apr 25, 2014 at 01:15
nathanle posted:
I noticed on the master account, PER opened another trade at 1.38161. So, now there are 9 open position. Wondering why PER open another trade while in in the trading range.
only they know, and they ain't telling! perhaps they have a monkey throwing darts??? (just kidding!)
Make it, or break it!
Apr 25, 2014 at 01:30
doegie posted:Michigander posted:nathanle posted:
I noticed on the master account, PER opened another trade at 1.38161. So, now there are 9 open position. Wondering why PER open another trade while in in the trading range.
You can always open another position mid grid when your "absolutely positively sure" that the trade is going to go in your favor.
Its simply more profit. What could possibly go wrong?
Nothing. As long as you have an infinite amount of capital to support the inevitable drawdowns!!!
Yep, totally agree with HHD. This is what I am concern. For starter, this is partial grid system and average down trading strategy. But when you purchase multiple positions at the same price or too close from one another, than the average down no longer applicable or out of the window. And if the situation keeps go against open position, the draw down keep getting deeper.
Apr 25, 2014 at 02:09
AngryEA2 posted:
I like the point 3. which is so true...
in our case... why opening sell trades when we know the signal will go up first? :)
well... from what I can see PER has good TP targets, the entry point is the problem for now.
they should starts another signal provider for those who already close their trades. because their EA is good and certainly missed some good trades during these days...
Dear Angry. You cannot know that the signal will go up first. If you know how to predict that, I will pay you a million dollars to tell me!!!
Make it, or break it!
Apr 25, 2014 at 10:15
doegie posted:AngryEA2 posted:
I like the point 3. which is so true...
in our case... why opening sell trades when we know the signal will go up first? :)
well... from what I can see PER has good TP targets, the entry point is the problem for now.
they should starts another signal provider for those who already close their trades. because their EA is good and certainly missed some good trades during these days...
Dear Angry. You cannot know that the signal will go up first. If you know how to predict that, I will pay you a million dollars to tell me!!!
so if I follow you... you'll pay PER 1 million $ if their down prediction is true? :)
even if they don't anticipate the big up move...
Apr 25, 2014 at 10:21
I cannot understand why the open orders are private. There are 9 EURUSD sell positions opened right now as follows: 1.37433, 1.37702, 1.37934, 1.38018, 1.38277, 1.39394, 1.38545, 1.38976 and 1.38160.
This is an excellent EA and these positions will be closed with an overall profit probably next week. Since the first position was opened on April 8th you can understand that you have to be quite patient with this EA if you want to make money. You also need to be able to withstand the large drawdown (for me over 25%).
This is an excellent EA and these positions will be closed with an overall profit probably next week. Since the first position was opened on April 8th you can understand that you have to be quite patient with this EA if you want to make money. You also need to be able to withstand the large drawdown (for me over 25%).
Apr 25, 2014 at 12:46
Hutch posted:
I cannot understand why the open orders are private. There are 9 EURUSD sell positions opened right now as follows: 1.37433, 1.37702, 1.37934, 1.38018, 1.38277, 1.39394, 1.38545, 1.38976 and 1.38160.
This is an excellent EA and these positions will be closed with an overall profit probably next week. Since the first position was opened on April 8th you can understand that you have to be quite patient with this EA if you want to make money. You also need to be able to withstand the large drawdown (for me over 25%).
Member Since Aug 25, 2011 54 postsHHD (doegie) Yesterday at 02:25
I thought some statistics might be interesting:
Duration (DD:HH:MM:SS) time trades open
Mean 01:20:14:48 1 day, 20 hours, 14 minutes, 48 seconds
Median 00:13:39:50 13 hours, 39 minutes, 50 seconds
Minimum 00:00:03:02 3 minutes, 2 seconds
Maximum 10:23:02:42 10 days, 23 hours, 2 minutes, 42 seconds
Count 245 245 trades
you can all look at the closed trades and see the actual distributions of times. the max of 10 days is an outlier. there are a lot of 6 days below that. the mean and the median i think are most useful. the max and min are many standard deviations away, which means high inconsistency, but this is not necessarily a bad thing.
I think that we all have to accept that in this business, regardless of the orderly and consistent periods, if you trade any system long enough, anything and everything will eventually happen. We are in another outlier event now, but let us not forget that these have been quite rare so far. I wish you all well and hope that those who are sticking with it can tolerate the dd and will be happy, happy, happy when it is over, just as PER promises we will.
Best of Luck to All.
Make it, or break it!
Apr 25, 2014 at 12:50
AngryEA2 posted:doegie posted:AngryEA2 posted:
I like the point 3. which is so true...
in our case... why opening sell trades when we know the signal will go up first? :)
well... from what I can see PER has good TP targets, the entry point is the problem for now.
they should starts another signal provider for those who already close their trades. because their EA is good and certainly missed some good trades during these days...
Dear Angry. You cannot know that the signal will go up first. If you know how to predict that, I will pay you a million dollars to tell me!!!
so if I follow you... you'll pay PER 1 million $ if their down prediction is true? :)
even if they don't anticipate the big up move...
Dear Angry,
you said: "in our case... why opening sell trades when we know the signal will go up first? :)". I said this is a false statement by you because nobody, not even God, knows if the signal will go up first!!!
Make it, or break it!
Member Since May 08, 2012
316 posts
Apr 25, 2014 at 14:30
(edited Apr 25, 2014 at 14:33)
This is definitely a trade we are all going to learn from. In a way, I almost hope it goes to the 50% stop because it will bring a little humility back to their process. They are just too cock-sure for my comfort. Maybe the worry privately and put on a stoic front publicly. While you never know implicitly where the trade will end until it ends, there are definitely TA points that do concern me.
We have now banged the 50% retracement of the up move 7 times in the past two weeks and have not gotten through. Each time it provides support makes that support level that much more stronger.
Every oscillator I throw on the chart is screamiing divergence. We keep retesting 1.38161 yet look at the oscillators as they continue to put in higher lows. The divergences show on the 1H and 4H charts. The daily oscillator is confirming and in a buy.
This is not about who will be right or who will be wrong. It is about the preponderance of the evidence. I am out of the trade. I have been for some time now, but I still want to learn how they think and what makes them tick. Its the old "trust but verify". The fact that they would give up a nice profit for an even nicer profit at the expense of being totally wrong is disturbing. Babe Ruth was the home run king, but he was also the strike out king.
If this thing breaks out to the upside, we are not coming back to their profit point for some time. They have already shown they will be right at any cost. They are going to have to add another 8 trades to this to potentially salvage it on the next pullback, when it comes. I hope you are prepared for that possibility.
We have now banged the 50% retracement of the up move 7 times in the past two weeks and have not gotten through. Each time it provides support makes that support level that much more stronger.
Every oscillator I throw on the chart is screamiing divergence. We keep retesting 1.38161 yet look at the oscillators as they continue to put in higher lows. The divergences show on the 1H and 4H charts. The daily oscillator is confirming and in a buy.
This is not about who will be right or who will be wrong. It is about the preponderance of the evidence. I am out of the trade. I have been for some time now, but I still want to learn how they think and what makes them tick. Its the old "trust but verify". The fact that they would give up a nice profit for an even nicer profit at the expense of being totally wrong is disturbing. Babe Ruth was the home run king, but he was also the strike out king.
If this thing breaks out to the upside, we are not coming back to their profit point for some time. They have already shown they will be right at any cost. They are going to have to add another 8 trades to this to potentially salvage it on the next pullback, when it comes. I hope you are prepared for that possibility.
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War is when your government tells you who the enemy is. Revolution is when you figure out, for yourself, who the enemy is.
