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Reasonable monthly/ annual returns

Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 17:08
2299 投稿
Hello everyone!

I am posting my first topic here as I am struggling to gouge what is that serious investors want?
I have been trading Forex since October 2008 and stopped losing money approximately 6 months after I started. I still trade same money as I deposited in the very beginning.
However I used to have problems with returns. I actually have no idea for how much monthly/ annual returns should I strive to attract serious investors in the future. I am trading 2 accounts here and after being told that 5% is not worth it, i pushed myself and lost all my earnings for 4 months in September and this month only bringing account back up to previous high which is a waste of my time and energy. Thankfully I was more careful on my second account and it was doing fine.
Can experienced guys put me here on right trail? I am not looking for some crazy returns but does 4-6% monthly look really that bad? I simply see some systems strategies here making outlandish returns and it makes me feel like I am under performing.
Elkart
Elkart
Oct 26 2010 at 18:05
941 投稿
5% A month compounds to 70% per year. Double what the second richest man in the world does.

I suspect the dude who told you it's to not enough isn't a trader and probably signed onto whoever is the best con out there.

Don't worry about it. You're doing just fine.
Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 18:12
2299 投稿
Thank you Elkart. It is really good to hear from you as I have been following local threads and you are in a lot of them, so you must know better :)
Will do my best to keep my average around these numbers.
Elkart
Elkart
Oct 26 2010 at 18:41
941 投稿
Talking a lot doesn't mean I know better. But Buffet does about 30% per annum. You're beating that by a factor of 2.

Thing is not to listen to other people with their own agendas. I assure you your bank manager isn't.

It might be possible to go faster, but not by much and definitely not manually. So you just putter along.

For the record, I'm GrimFd.
Elkart
Elkart
Oct 26 2010 at 18:52
941 投稿
Who ever told you that isn't enough is completely unrealistic.

And any fund or trader who does more than that doesn't really require clients. In fact clients quickly become a disadvantage. Where you're at is as good as it gets for investors.
Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 18:56
2299 投稿
Hi Grim ! Did not expect to see you here :)

I am constantly worried about returns issue. So, your words are rather helpful.
I will feel better about my returns now. Whatever the market gives, thanks a lot.
Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 19:11
2299 投稿
I see. I am actually quite sure that had I had some real money of my own I would have been doing just fine now.
However for managing OPM, I sure need longer trading record. I guess another 4-6 months if everything goes same way is fine.
I am sure my hard work will pay sooner or later.
Elkart
Elkart
Oct 26 2010 at 19:22
941 投稿
Lol - Why wouldn't I be here?

I think was the first person here. I still have system Nr. 4. I think the other 3 were their testers. By the time FXbook came along I was considering writing analysis EA's to find out what was going on in my accounts. All I did all day was spreadsheets. Sprinted over here fast as I could type.

In my experience if you do well the money will find you.

It is true that yours will disappear in all the noise. Got systems here doing gazillions month, but the clever investor will look past that, they know better. And ideally that's the investor you want, not the guy chasing the gazillions.
Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 19:32
2299 投稿
I have seen CuongV, KingInvestor and even Mr. Zero and yours truly but all under their usual nicknames. I came to associate you with that jumping elephant and nickname GrimFD so, I did not expect you under other nick :)

I personally do not think that serious investor will be asking for even say 10-20% monthly which is actually quite possible. i would have made 10-15% this month had I closed all positions same time. I was closing half position and let the rest run which it did not. So, I think it is possible but better to keep it safe.

BTW, I see this :' Chang beer is evil' . Do you mean Chinese Chang Cheng ( Great Wall ) beer?
Elkart
Elkart
Oct 26 2010 at 19:54
941 投稿
I meant this Chang:

I won the Chang lottery. Almost put me in hospital. There's something in it that builds up in your body. You have that extra one the fist of god comes down on you. Swore I'll never touch the stuff again.

As for the forums, I'd pretty much given up on them. Which is why I didn't bother with keeping an identity. I wasn't really going to post, but doing the API I had a few questions on O and I been adding here while I used the site for stats, which I don't anymore. The stats wont help much with the new work as fxbook is not NAV based and the volume is to big to send to fxbook.

I had a little reminder yesterday why I quit. And I'm about to quit again. Sad thing is I have so much knowledge to add, but it's just not worth it.
Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 20:09
2299 投稿
It's pity. There is practically no old timers experienced traders post in Oanda now.
I spend most of the time in Forex Factory in 1-2 threads with like minded traders.
It's where I believe emerging traders still can learn from experienced ones. Oanda forum is just not what it used to be.
I guess your decision is related to bad energy that is there now.
Thankfully, in Forex Factory it looks like energy is still good.
Elkart
Elkart
Oct 26 2010 at 20:24
941 投稿
Well,

Either people are trying to sell you stuff you don't need because it's their god given right or you have the Zero's of the world. There's nothing in it for me.

I don't mind helping along, but honestly I'd rather be on the beach than slug it out with the Zero's of the world or fending off snake oil sellers. I guess you just outgrow the forums eventually...
trixifx
Oct 26 2010 at 20:26
41 投稿
Yes, I read your original posts on OANDA's forum and I do believe you have grown a lot since then. It should be evident in your trading account.

I don't believe you should target a certain group of investors. Trade in a way in which you are comfortable with and investors comfortable with your approach will find you. Of course, it is up to you to ensure that you comply with all the relevant regulatory requirements for managing OPM.

If you find yourself changing your style to suit your investors, you will most likely not make it in this business. If you can't find investors comfortable with your returns, then so be it. Compounded growth over time can be quite impressive even if it is just on your own money.

Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 20:58
2299 投稿
Yes, I understand you. Not everyone sees Zero as sort of entertainment as I do.
And obviously you have better things to do that sitting in front of the screen.
I hope South African beaches not worse than those in Thailand though :)
The presence of numerous hypos there must be main difference ;)



Elkart posted:
    Well,

Either people are trying to sell you stuff you don't need because it's their god given right or you have the Zero's of the world. There's nothing in it for me.

I don't mind helping along, but honestly I'd rather be on the beach than slug it out with the Zero's of the world or fending off snake oil sellers. I guess you just outgrow the forums eventually...
Chikot
Oct 26 2010 at 21:06
2299 投稿
Trixifix, thank you for response.
I am actually not changing my style to suit anyone, but I have been experimenting with leverage and stops. Now everything looks like in order, so , I will continue doing whatever I have been doing.

Oanda actually contacted me regarding new rules. It looks like if I am to trade US citizens funds in the future I do have to register. But if funds are of non American citizens I pretty much can continue without registration. I guess I will have to register eventually after I have longer trading record.

I believe there will be investors interested in my level of returns as I already see guy with similar returns but over longer period getting some funds.
I am just being realistic. To start managing my own funds and grow it, I would need at minimum $10 000 risk capital. I think it is very little actually. So, instead I prefer to grow my skills and I am sure I will be noticed.
Good risk control + decent consistent returns is what i am looking for.
I will not let others returns influence my own trading now.

trixifx posted:
    Yes, I read your original posts on OANDA's forum and I do believe you have grown a lot since then. It should be evident in your trading account.

I don't believe you should target a certain group of investors. Trade in a way in which you are comfortable with and investors comfortable with your approach will find you. Of course, it is up to you to ensure that you comply with all the relevant regulatory requirements for managing OPM.

If you find yourself changing your style to suit your investors, you will most likely not make it in this business. If you can't find investors comfortable with your returns, then so be it. Compounded growth over time can be quite impressive even if it is just on your own money.


Nyasani
Nov 07 2010 at 06:31
8 投稿

Elkart posted:
    Lol - Why wouldn't I be here?

I think was the first person here. I still have system Nr. 4. I think the other 3 were their testers. By the time FXbook came along I was considering writing analysis EA's to find out what was going on in my accounts. All I did all day was spreadsheets. Sprinted over here fast as I could type.

In my experience if you do well the money will find you.

It is true that yours will disappear in all the noise. Got systems here doing gazillions month, but the clever investor will look past that, they know better. And ideally that's the investor you want, not the guy chasing the gazillions.

Well said. 1700% return. How insane is that? Why would you be looking for investors if you can manage that kind of returns?
Chikot
Nov 08 2010 at 23:50
2299 投稿
I am not making or looking for such returns. It was about someone else. I am looking for 5-10% monthly.
and yes, I will be looking for investors when I am happy with my results.


Nyasani posted:
    
Elkart posted:
    Lol - Why wouldn't I be here?

I think was the first person here. I still have system Nr. 4. I think the other 3 were their testers. By the time FXbook came along I was considering writing analysis EA's to find out what was going on in my accounts. All I did all day was spreadsheets. Sprinted over here fast as I could type.

In my experience if you do well the money will find you.

It is true that yours will disappear in all the noise. Got systems here doing gazillions month, but the clever investor will look past that, they know better. And ideally that's the investor you want, not the guy chasing the gazillions.

Well said. 1700% return. How insane is that? Why would you be looking for investors if you can manage that kind of returns?
Borys Fesenko (iticsoftware)
Nov 09 2010 at 18:19
121 投稿
I think 10% per month is really good and workable (Not irritating for broker) result.
trixifx
Nov 09 2010 at 20:58
41 投稿
10% a month equates to roughly 214% annualised. Even 5% per month leads to annualised returns of roughly 80%.

Any of those returns would probably place you in the top 1% of all money managers.
WorldTrader
Nov 09 2010 at 23:51
54 投稿
@ OP, Never mind anyone who tell u 5% monthly gain is bad, i bet there are some traders that can not make that, beside they are also traders that can make like 50% to 100% monthly, but they are few that can do that.
   My advice is just still to what u know u can make, with time, u can increase, that is how i become succefulll, rising from stage to stage.
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