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Trading without Stoploss, can send you packing

WorldTrader
Nov 10 2010 at 05:36
54 投稿
seen a lot of traders trading without stoploss, reason they always say is that they fear the market me hit there stoploss and reverse, as for me, i dont trade without stoploss, cos this is how i manage my money, is very helpfull when it comes to niddles that turns against u. Do u use stoploss or not , and please what are ur reasons?
Elkart
Elkart
Nov 10 2010 at 08:12
941 投稿
I don't at all, they're very likely to get hit most of the times, but I do control my risk at equity level and rather seeing a single trade as risk bearing entity I look at what the entire portfolio is doing.

Your risk in one trade could be offset by another trade (long eurusd and long usdchf for example), and the real risk to the portfolio is only evident in the speed of change in the NAV.
alentia
Nov 11 2010 at 02:32
2 投稿
I don't usually use SL. But when I do it is usually getting hit and reverse. I try to manage my risk not going above 50% of the equity. This helps to sustain pull backs and runs, even when they last weeks. I am more fundamental trader than technical and therefore even negative pair eventually coming back to make me a profit.
Max (hwlm)
Nov 11 2010 at 02:41
59 投稿
Why reveal your positions to enemies by using SL? We all know that brokers will sweep our stop losses. I read and learnt from an ex Tier-1 banker that the pro bank traders never ever use stop losses. Check out the forum thread in ForexFactory - Technical Analysis Fallacy.

I have been trading with indicators + stop loss for about a year, and have been inconsistent. Ever since I started trading only with naked charts and without stop loss 5 weeks ago, i haven lost a trade.
WorldTrader
Nov 12 2010 at 12:28
54 投稿
I mostly use it cos of needles
Max (hwlm)
Nov 12 2010 at 12:36
59 投稿
SIM
pip2cash
Nov 12 2010 at 12:42
423 投稿

hwlm posted:
    Why reveal your positions to enemies by using SL? We all know that brokers will sweep our stop losses. I read and learnt from an ex Tier-1 banker that the pro bank traders never ever use stop losses. Check out the forum thread in ForexFactory - Technical Analysis Fallacy.

I have been trading with indicators + stop loss for about a year, and have been inconsistent. Ever since I started trading only with naked charts and without stop loss 5 weeks ago, i haven lost a trade.

Hi,

As you said they are tier 1 pro bank traders, they may not need SL.
But are we one of them?

Regards,
SIM
Max (hwlm)
Nov 12 2010 at 12:46
59 投稿
No we are not. But I urge you to give it a try before passing judgement. But if you are consistently making money for months or years, then it has little use for you :)
pipdetector
Nov 12 2010 at 14:31
78 投稿
Setting stop loss seems not necessary if you are consistent in your strategy and you play with very small lots relative to your account equity eg. if you have $5000 account and you play with 0.01 lots.
WorldTrader
Nov 13 2010 at 08:49
54 投稿
hwlm posted:
    No we are not. But I urge you to give it a try before passing judgement. But if you are consistently making money for months or years, then it has little use for you :)
It can only work when u are trading like with 1million dollars or euros, then u are using only 10 lots, u may not bother to use stoploss
Max (hwlm)
Nov 13 2010 at 11:43
59 投稿

WorldTrader posted:
    
hwlm posted:
    No we are not. But I urge you to give it a try before passing judgement. But if you are consistently making money for months or years, then it has little use for you :)
It can only work when u are trading like with 1million dollars or euros, then u are using only 10 lots, u may not bother to use stoploss

It works with any amount. But you're missing the point. Not using stop loss is not the strategy. The strategy is here.

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=57639

SniperNCE
Nov 14 2010 at 01:02
13 投稿
Usually you have to use Stop Losses except you hedge your positions. If you don't set it in the system you has to close the orders manually your loss taget was hit. Else your account get burned sooner or later.

I set stop losses in my system which are far away like 30-100 pips, but when I see than my position does not this what I like to see, I close it earlier manually. Once my position goes in profit for more than x pips I set my SL to break even or lock in some profit.

I'm a scalp trader.
ForexScan
Nov 14 2010 at 04:18
2 投稿
I learnd from a pro how to trade without stop loss, I have to say yes u can be sucessfull trader trading without stop loss with good money managment allready its been mentioned in prevouse postes how to do that. If u still want to take more risk then learn to do hedging if your initial trade is wrong your hedging trade will make money wait till market turn around and close your hedging with profit and now u will start making money with your initial trade now your overall profit will be the gap between the hedging trade and initial trade close u can close the initial trade with negative and still make profit.

If u prefer hedging make sure to do when u have over 50% equity dont wait till last minuite. I know if brokers read this thread they will not like traders trading without stop loss I am taking my time to write this becouse I lost lot of my money for the stoploss I know how it feels when u keep on losing money.
Max (hwlm)
Nov 14 2010 at 06:32
59 投稿
I don't do hedging because it's just confusing. If you believe that your initial position is with the major trend, then you should stick with it because sooner or later, price will do a quick snap back towards the direction of the major trend. however, I have also experienced cases where price can go against you for some time even though your trade is with the major trend.

What I do is averaging my trade. For example, if I am caught in a change of major trend, and price is going against me without an opportunity to reverse, I will wait for an opportunity (at possible retracement points) to open a new contract that is 3-5x the size of the initial contract. I will wait for the price to perform the retracement I was expecting, and get out at BE.


eg. Long EURO. Down by 40pips. Enter 3-5x contract, wait for minor retracement (upwards) to take place. Get out with BE.
WorldTrader
Nov 15 2010 at 14:21
54 投稿
ForexScan posted:
    I learnd from a pro how to trade without stop loss, I have to say yes u can be sucessfull trader trading without stop loss with good money managment allready its been mentioned in prevouse postes how to do that. If u still want to take more risk then learn to do hedging if your initial trade is wrong your hedging trade will make money wait till market turn around and close your hedging with profit and now u will start making money with your initial trade now your overall profit will be the gap between the hedging trade and initial trade close u can close the initial trade with negative and still make profit.

If u prefer hedging make sure to do when u have over 50% equity dont wait till last minuite. I know if brokers read this thread they will not like traders trading without stop loss I am taking my time to write this becouse I lost lot of my money for the stoploss I know how it feels when u keep on losing money.
That is what u get when u trade under a broker that is stoploss hunter
Saintsurfer
Nov 30 2010 at 18:32
8 投稿

I don`t use stops. because I trade long term and as long the trend has not changed it is all about money monagement. But for shorter term I do use them. Or if I take additional risk(trading long term) than my account allows I would move my SL to BE for the exstra positions and it is ok to risk more then.
Moderation, naturality and simplicity are the best advisers
Patience
Dec 12 2010 at 12:59
230 投稿
Interesting to see more people admitting to not using stop losses than people who do use them. It's such a taboo subject in some circles. I don't use stops but I trade low leverage most of the time.
ghanima
Dec 13 2010 at 13:23
9 投稿

hwlm posted:
    I don't do hedging because it's just confusing. If you believe that your initial position is with the major trend, then you should stick with it because sooner or later, price will do a quick snap back towards the direction of the major trend. however, I have also experienced cases where price can go against you for some time even though your trade is with the major trend.

What I do is averaghing my trade. For example, if I am caught in a change of major trend, and price is going against me without an opportunity to reverse, I will wait for an opportunity (at possible retracement points) to open a new contract that is 3-5x the size of the initial contract. I will wait for the price to perform the retracement I was expecting, and get out at BE.


eg. Long EURO. Down by 40pips. Enter 3-5x contract, wait for minor retracement (upwards) to take place. Get out with BE.

I only lost money doing that, before or after you find yourself with a huge position that doesn't stop going against you, and adieu. hedging, absolutely. it's a wonderful tool.
Max (hwlm)
Dec 13 2010 at 13:25
59 投稿
Yeah i lost money doing that too. But it was not because of the method. it was human emotions that caused me to lose.

The method works only upon finding your own style
Steve B (stevetrade)
Dec 13 2010 at 13:39
1415 投稿
The whole concept of a stop loss is a method to take emotion out of the equation. If you have decided in advance what loss you are willing to accept then I don't see a problem with putting a stick in the ground on the system.

That way last second nerves can't get in the way of the decision. 'Oh, I'll just wait a second it will come back' turns into 'This is a long term position, I know the trend will reverse', turns into 'Any spare change mate, I need a coffee'.

If you are trading with a broker that is hitting your stop losses then change broker. Seriously, nobody should be using a dodgy broker anymore there is plenty of information out there to point you in the direction of honest MT4 brokers.
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
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