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Aug 01, 2017 at 10:06
Hawk84 posted:
Hi there,
Please find my system below:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Hawk84/trickle84/2201807
I think it meets your criteria.
Cheers,
CC
It seems to be clear martingale
tag
03.06.2017 02:35 03.07.2017 17:38 GBPJPY Sell 0.04 -44.20 - 139.88900 139.15500 73.4 25.62 1d 1.38%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 18:51 GBPJPY Buy 0.03 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.41800 -6.6 -1.73 1h 23m -0.09%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 17:28 GBPJPY Buy 0.02 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.45400 -3.0 -0.52 1m -0.03%
tag
02.22.2017 12:21 02.23.2017 10:16 GBPJPY Sell 0.02 -57.80 91.10 140.95300 141.30600 -35.3 -6.40 21h 55m -0.34%
tag
01.23.2017 15:30 01.24.2017 18:50 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 -104.10 - 141.22800 142.26900 -104.1 -9.19 1d -0.49%
tag
01.13.2017 11:46 01.16.2017 00:00 GBPJPY Buy 0.01 -97.20 212.90 139.88100 137.10500 -277.6 -24.26 2d -1.28%
tag
01.04.2017 12:49 01.04.2017 12:55 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 - - 144.14900 144.19900 -5.0 -0.42 5m -0.02%
So nope it does not fit the criteria.
Sep 12, 2015からメンバー
1933 投稿
Aug 01, 2017 at 12:46
zk74 posted:
My EA made 14% in July, 319% all Time
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/zk74/real-dragon/1911160
No stop loss ?
"They mistook leverage with genius".
forex_trader_428259
May 08, 2017からメンバー
36 投稿
Aug 01, 2017 at 14:33
Hello here my account live in Alpari.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/winwinandwin/manualstableprofit/2203190
If want manage service... contact in my skype.
Best regards!
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/winwinandwin/manualstableprofit/2203190
If want manage service... contact in my skype.
Best regards!
Aug 01, 2017 at 15:46
winwinandwin posted:
Hello here my account live in Alpari.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/winwinandwin/manualstableprofit/2203190
If want manage service... contact in my skype.
Best regards!
Message in your link : "Sorry, but this system was deleted by it's creator."
Aug 02, 2017 at 07:14
togr posted:Hawk84 posted:
Hi there,
Please find my system below:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Hawk84/trickle84/2201807
I think it meets your criteria.
Cheers,
CC
It seems to be clear martingale
tag
03.06.2017 02:35 03.07.2017 17:38 GBPJPY Sell 0.04 -44.20 - 139.88900 139.15500 73.4 25.62 1d 1.38%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 18:51 GBPJPY Buy 0.03 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.41800 -6.6 -1.73 1h 23m -0.09%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 17:28 GBPJPY Buy 0.02 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.45400 -3.0 -0.52 1m -0.03%
tag
02.22.2017 12:21 02.23.2017 10:16 GBPJPY Sell 0.02 -57.80 91.10 140.95300 141.30600 -35.3 -6.40 21h 55m -0.34%
tag
01.23.2017 15:30 01.24.2017 18:50 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 -104.10 - 141.22800 142.26900 -104.1 -9.19 1d -0.49%
tag
01.13.2017 11:46 01.16.2017 00:00 GBPJPY Buy 0.01 -97.20 212.90 139.88100 137.10500 -277.6 -24.26 2d -1.28%
tag
01.04.2017 12:49 01.04.2017 12:55 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 - - 144.14900 144.19900 -5.0 -0.42 5m -0.02%
So nope it does not fit the criteria.
It isn-t martingale at all.
I have a trade plan with clear rules and a maximum position size depending on my trading capital. It-s even rare for me to trade a full lot as per my trade plan.
Definition of Martingale system as you know: The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake.
For it to be martingale I would have to be trading 2 full lots on my second trade, 4 lots on the 3rd and 8 lots the 4th time to recover my losses and make a profit. On top of that I would not take what the market wants to give me. I do not take fixed targets. Again, if it were martingale, I would lose 10usd, make 11usd on a fixed target, lose 20 and make 21usd, etc...
I simply enter the market usually with a smaller size if I am not confident enough on that specific trade. If I change my mind about the market conditions I will increase my position size, reduce it or even close it manually as any trader would do. It all depends on my indicators, fundamentals or price behavior.
It often happens that I have a medium probability setup and trade 0.5p.p, change my mind, close 0.3 and re enter at a better price with a calculated risk.
I suggest you analyze my trades better because you will see I never trade a market for more than 2pp, which is a clear rule on my account for a 2k account.
ccardoso84@
Aug 02, 2017 at 07:24
You can have simple strategic but with a good money management system and discipline you will get the goal without problem
forex_trader_227785
Jan 22, 2015からメンバー
44 投稿
Aug 02, 2017 at 07:54
snapdragon1970 posted:no, i have other metode if go to DD 50%.zk74 posted:
My EA made 14% in July, 319% all Time
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/zk74/real-dragon/1911160
No stop loss ?
Aug 02, 2017 at 10:06
It is my trading:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Yury48/my-ea-v11-29579703/1950647
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Yury48/my-ea-v11-29579703/1950647
Aug 02, 2017 at 10:10
Hawk84 posted:togr posted:Hawk84 posted:
Hi there,
Please find my system below:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Hawk84/trickle84/2201807
I think it meets your criteria.
Cheers,
CC
It seems to be clear martingale
tag
03.06.2017 02:35 03.07.2017 17:38 GBPJPY Sell 0.04 -44.20 - 139.88900 139.15500 73.4 25.62 1d 1.38%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 18:51 GBPJPY Buy 0.03 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.41800 -6.6 -1.73 1h 23m -0.09%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 17:28 GBPJPY Buy 0.02 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.45400 -3.0 -0.52 1m -0.03%
tag
02.22.2017 12:21 02.23.2017 10:16 GBPJPY Sell 0.02 -57.80 91.10 140.95300 141.30600 -35.3 -6.40 21h 55m -0.34%
tag
01.23.2017 15:30 01.24.2017 18:50 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 -104.10 - 141.22800 142.26900 -104.1 -9.19 1d -0.49%
tag
01.13.2017 11:46 01.16.2017 00:00 GBPJPY Buy 0.01 -97.20 212.90 139.88100 137.10500 -277.6 -24.26 2d -1.28%
tag
01.04.2017 12:49 01.04.2017 12:55 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 - - 144.14900 144.19900 -5.0 -0.42 5m -0.02%
So nope it does not fit the criteria.
It isn-t martingale at all.
I have a trade plan with clear rules and a maximum position size depending on my trading capital. It-s even rare for me to trade a full lot as per my trade plan.
Definition of Martingale system as you know: The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake.
For it to be martingale I would have to be trading 2 full lots on my second trade, 4 lots on the 3rd and 8 lots the 4th time to recover my losses and make a profit. On top of that I would not take what the market wants to give me. I do not take fixed targets. Again, if it were martingale, I would lose 10usd, make 11usd on a fixed target, lose 20 and make 21usd, etc...
I simply enter the market usually with a smaller size if I am not confident enough on that specific trade. If I change my mind about the market conditions I will increase my position size, reduce it or even close it manually as any trader would do. It all depends on my indicators, fundamentals or price behavior.
It often happens that I have a medium probability setup and trade 0.5p.p, change my mind, close 0.3 and re enter at a better price with a calculated risk.
I suggest you analyze my trades better because you will see I never trade a market for more than 2pp, which is a clear rule on my account for a 2k account.
Nope
Definition of martingale is simply that you increase trade size when your equity/balance decrease.
So you started with 0.01 lots loosing trade and you came up to 0.04 lot. It is clear martingale.
Whatever you call it smart marti, martigrid, limited marti. Still martingale.
Aug 02, 2017 at 10:10
cedtrading posted:
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/cedtrading/tornado/2105059
made 12% this months
regards
@cedtrading
Actually this system is pretty good so far.
Verified account on well known broker.
DD and profit correlation is nice.
What scares me a bit is that you have 100% winning trades for the main profit contributor EURSEK.
It seems you keep trades open for a long time until they become profitable. Is that right?
Sep 12, 2015からメンバー
1933 投稿
Aug 02, 2017 at 12:14
zk74 posted:snapdragon1970 posted:no, i have other metode if go to DD 50%.zk74 posted:
My EA made 14% in July, 319% all Time
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/zk74/real-dragon/1911160
No stop loss ?
That's a lot of cash to keep on one account, 20%DD would scare most people.
"They mistook leverage with genius".
Aug 02, 2017 at 12:51
togr posted:Hawk84 posted:togr posted:Hawk84 posted:
Hi there,
Please find my system below:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Hawk84/trickle84/2201807
I think it meets your criteria.
Cheers,
CC
It seems to be clear martingale
tag
03.06.2017 02:35 03.07.2017 17:38 GBPJPY Sell 0.04 -44.20 - 139.88900 139.15500 73.4 25.62 1d 1.38%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 18:51 GBPJPY Buy 0.03 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.41800 -6.6 -1.73 1h 23m -0.09%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 17:28 GBPJPY Buy 0.02 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.45400 -3.0 -0.52 1m -0.03%
tag
02.22.2017 12:21 02.23.2017 10:16 GBPJPY Sell 0.02 -57.80 91.10 140.95300 141.30600 -35.3 -6.40 21h 55m -0.34%
tag
01.23.2017 15:30 01.24.2017 18:50 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 -104.10 - 141.22800 142.26900 -104.1 -9.19 1d -0.49%
tag
01.13.2017 11:46 01.16.2017 00:00 GBPJPY Buy 0.01 -97.20 212.90 139.88100 137.10500 -277.6 -24.26 2d -1.28%
tag
01.04.2017 12:49 01.04.2017 12:55 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 - - 144.14900 144.19900 -5.0 -0.42 5m -0.02%
So nope it does not fit the criteria.
It isn-t martingale at all.
I have a trade plan with clear rules and a maximum position size depending on my trading capital. It-s even rare for me to trade a full lot as per my trade plan.
Definition of Martingale system as you know: The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake.
For it to be martingale I would have to be trading 2 full lots on my second trade, 4 lots on the 3rd and 8 lots the 4th time to recover my losses and make a profit. On top of that I would not take what the market wants to give me. I do not take fixed targets. Again, if it were martingale, I would lose 10usd, make 11usd on a fixed target, lose 20 and make 21usd, etc...
I simply enter the market usually with a smaller size if I am not confident enough on that specific trade. If I change my mind about the market conditions I will increase my position size, reduce it or even close it manually as any trader would do. It all depends on my indicators, fundamentals or price behavior.
It often happens that I have a medium probability setup and trade 0.5p.p, change my mind, close 0.3 and re enter at a better price with a calculated risk.
I suggest you analyze my trades better because you will see I never trade a market for more than 2pp, which is a clear rule on my account for a 2k account.
Nope
Definition of martingale is simply that you increase trade size when your equity/balance decrease.
So you started with 0.01 lots loosing trade and you came up to 0.04 lot. It is clear martingale.
Whatever you call it smart marti, martigrid, limited marti. Still martingale.
If my trade plan allows me to trade 1pp on a single market, I can split that 1pp 10 times with 0.1 lots, get in and out at different levels if I so wish.
There is no consistent increased lots with my trading after losses. Good luck increasing the number of people in this forum with your approach and re definition of trading behavior.
ccardoso84@
Aug 02, 2017 at 12:56
togr posted:Hawk84 posted:togr posted:Hawk84 posted:
Hi there,
Please find my system below:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Hawk84/trickle84/2201807
I think it meets your criteria.
Cheers,
CC
It seems to be clear martingale
tag
03.06.2017 02:35 03.07.2017 17:38 GBPJPY Sell 0.04 -44.20 - 139.88900 139.15500 73.4 25.62 1d 1.38%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 18:51 GBPJPY Buy 0.03 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.41800 -6.6 -1.73 1h 23m -0.09%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 17:28 GBPJPY Buy 0.02 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.45400 -3.0 -0.52 1m -0.03%
tag
02.22.2017 12:21 02.23.2017 10:16 GBPJPY Sell 0.02 -57.80 91.10 140.95300 141.30600 -35.3 -6.40 21h 55m -0.34%
tag
01.23.2017 15:30 01.24.2017 18:50 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 -104.10 - 141.22800 142.26900 -104.1 -9.19 1d -0.49%
tag
01.13.2017 11:46 01.16.2017 00:00 GBPJPY Buy 0.01 -97.20 212.90 139.88100 137.10500 -277.6 -24.26 2d -1.28%
tag
01.04.2017 12:49 01.04.2017 12:55 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 - - 144.14900 144.19900 -5.0 -0.42 5m -0.02%
So nope it does not fit the criteria.
It isn-t martingale at all.
I have a trade plan with clear rules and a maximum position size depending on my trading capital. It-s even rare for me to trade a full lot as per my trade plan.
Definition of Martingale system as you know: The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake.
For it to be martingale I would have to be trading 2 full lots on my second trade, 4 lots on the 3rd and 8 lots the 4th time to recover my losses and make a profit. On top of that I would not take what the market wants to give me. I do not take fixed targets. Again, if it were martingale, I would lose 10usd, make 11usd on a fixed target, lose 20 and make 21usd, etc...
I simply enter the market usually with a smaller size if I am not confident enough on that specific trade. If I change my mind about the market conditions I will increase my position size, reduce it or even close it manually as any trader would do. It all depends on my indicators, fundamentals or price behavior.
It often happens that I have a medium probability setup and trade 0.5p.p, change my mind, close 0.3 and re enter at a better price with a calculated risk.
I suggest you analyze my trades better because you will see I never trade a market for more than 2pp, which is a clear rule on my account for a 2k account.
Nope
Definition of martingale is simply that you increase trade size when your equity/balance decrease.
So you started with 0.01 lots loosing trade and you came up to 0.04 lot. It is clear martingale.
Whatever you call it smart marti, martigrid, limited marti. Still martingale.
Sometimes it is a waste of time messaging people like @Tgor. The reality is, everyone uses martingale. No one opens an account, places an order and NOT increase lot size after they do it. Heck... Looking at tgor's trades, we can clearly see he does it! So yes, they say no martingale, but the reality is EVERY single account uses martingale!
@GJscalper for more information
Aug 02, 2017 at 12:57
togr posted:cedtrading posted:
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/cedtrading/tornado/2105059
made 12% this months
regards
@cedtrading
Actually this system is pretty good so far.
Verified account on well known broker.
DD and profit correlation is nice.
What scares me a bit is that you have 100% winning trades for the main profit contributor EURSEK.
It seems you keep trades open for a long time until they become profitable. Is that right?
Innstead of skimming through the numbers, why don't you look at his trades noobster.. The answer to your question is there. He has trades which he closed for 143 pips but was in red over 1200 pips on it.
@GJscalper for more information
Sep 12, 2015からメンバー
1933 投稿
Aug 02, 2017 at 13:13
GJscalper posted:togr posted:Hawk84 posted:togr posted:Hawk84 posted:
Hi there,
Please find my system below:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Hawk84/trickle84/2201807
I think it meets your criteria.
Cheers,
CC
It seems to be clear martingale
tag
03.06.2017 02:35 03.07.2017 17:38 GBPJPY Sell 0.04 -44.20 - 139.88900 139.15500 73.4 25.62 1d 1.38%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 18:51 GBPJPY Buy 0.03 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.41800 -6.6 -1.73 1h 23m -0.09%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 17:28 GBPJPY Buy 0.02 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.45400 -3.0 -0.52 1m -0.03%
tag
02.22.2017 12:21 02.23.2017 10:16 GBPJPY Sell 0.02 -57.80 91.10 140.95300 141.30600 -35.3 -6.40 21h 55m -0.34%
tag
01.23.2017 15:30 01.24.2017 18:50 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 -104.10 - 141.22800 142.26900 -104.1 -9.19 1d -0.49%
tag
01.13.2017 11:46 01.16.2017 00:00 GBPJPY Buy 0.01 -97.20 212.90 139.88100 137.10500 -277.6 -24.26 2d -1.28%
tag
01.04.2017 12:49 01.04.2017 12:55 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 - - 144.14900 144.19900 -5.0 -0.42 5m -0.02%
So nope it does not fit the criteria.
It isn-t martingale at all.
I have a trade plan with clear rules and a maximum position size depending on my trading capital. It-s even rare for me to trade a full lot as per my trade plan.
Definition of Martingale system as you know: The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake.
For it to be martingale I would have to be trading 2 full lots on my second trade, 4 lots on the 3rd and 8 lots the 4th time to recover my losses and make a profit. On top of that I would not take what the market wants to give me. I do not take fixed targets. Again, if it were martingale, I would lose 10usd, make 11usd on a fixed target, lose 20 and make 21usd, etc...
I simply enter the market usually with a smaller size if I am not confident enough on that specific trade. If I change my mind about the market conditions I will increase my position size, reduce it or even close it manually as any trader would do. It all depends on my indicators, fundamentals or price behavior.
It often happens that I have a medium probability setup and trade 0.5p.p, change my mind, close 0.3 and re enter at a better price with a calculated risk.
I suggest you analyze my trades better because you will see I never trade a market for more than 2pp, which is a clear rule on my account for a 2k account.
Nope
Definition of martingale is simply that you increase trade size when your equity/balance decrease.
So you started with 0.01 lots loosing trade and you came up to 0.04 lot. It is clear martingale.
Whatever you call it smart marti, martigrid, limited marti. Still martingale.
Sometimes it is a waste of time messaging people like @Tgor. The reality is, everyone uses martingale. No one opens an account, places an order and NOT increase lot size after they do it. Heck... Looking at tgor's trades, we can clearly see he does it! So yes, they say no martingale, but the reality is EVERY single account uses martingale!
That's weird I don't use martingale and I know other traders that would laugh at it.
"They mistook leverage with genius".
Feb 02, 2012からメンバー
2 投稿
Aug 02, 2017 at 14:12
my portfolio, couple of ea's running since a half year, 200%, around 800 trades per month:
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/mflorin333/355403/1994355
made some fixes in June, since then it works fine again. Any questions, hit me up.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/mflorin333/355403/1994355
made some fixes in June, since then it works fine again. Any questions, hit me up.
Aug 03, 2017 at 06:24
snapdragon1970 posted:GJscalper posted:togr posted:Hawk84 posted:togr posted:Hawk84 posted:
Hi there,
Please find my system below:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/Hawk84/trickle84/2201807
I think it meets your criteria.
Cheers,
CC
It seems to be clear martingale
tag
03.06.2017 02:35 03.07.2017 17:38 GBPJPY Sell 0.04 -44.20 - 139.88900 139.15500 73.4 25.62 1d 1.38%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 18:51 GBPJPY Buy 0.03 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.41800 -6.6 -1.73 1h 23m -0.09%
tag
03.02.2017 17:27 03.02.2017 17:28 GBPJPY Buy 0.02 -136.80 619.20 140.48400 140.45400 -3.0 -0.52 1m -0.03%
tag
02.22.2017 12:21 02.23.2017 10:16 GBPJPY Sell 0.02 -57.80 91.10 140.95300 141.30600 -35.3 -6.40 21h 55m -0.34%
tag
01.23.2017 15:30 01.24.2017 18:50 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 -104.10 - 141.22800 142.26900 -104.1 -9.19 1d -0.49%
tag
01.13.2017 11:46 01.16.2017 00:00 GBPJPY Buy 0.01 -97.20 212.90 139.88100 137.10500 -277.6 -24.26 2d -1.28%
tag
01.04.2017 12:49 01.04.2017 12:55 GBPJPY Sell 0.01 - - 144.14900 144.19900 -5.0 -0.42 5m -0.02%
So nope it does not fit the criteria.
It isn-t martingale at all.
I have a trade plan with clear rules and a maximum position size depending on my trading capital. It-s even rare for me to trade a full lot as per my trade plan.
Definition of Martingale system as you know: The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake.
For it to be martingale I would have to be trading 2 full lots on my second trade, 4 lots on the 3rd and 8 lots the 4th time to recover my losses and make a profit. On top of that I would not take what the market wants to give me. I do not take fixed targets. Again, if it were martingale, I would lose 10usd, make 11usd on a fixed target, lose 20 and make 21usd, etc...
I simply enter the market usually with a smaller size if I am not confident enough on that specific trade. If I change my mind about the market conditions I will increase my position size, reduce it or even close it manually as any trader would do. It all depends on my indicators, fundamentals or price behavior.
It often happens that I have a medium probability setup and trade 0.5p.p, change my mind, close 0.3 and re enter at a better price with a calculated risk.
I suggest you analyze my trades better because you will see I never trade a market for more than 2pp, which is a clear rule on my account for a 2k account.
Nope
Definition of martingale is simply that you increase trade size when your equity/balance decrease.
So you started with 0.01 lots loosing trade and you came up to 0.04 lot. It is clear martingale.
Whatever you call it smart marti, martigrid, limited marti. Still martingale.
Sometimes it is a waste of time messaging people like @Tgor. The reality is, everyone uses martingale. No one opens an account, places an order and NOT increase lot size after they do it. Heck... Looking at tgor's trades, we can clearly see he does it! So yes, they say no martingale, but the reality is EVERY single account uses martingale!
That's weird I don't use martingale and I know other traders that would laugh at it.
Sadly when I click you name; you magically have 0 accounts loaded which proves your claim. :(
@GJscalper for more information
forex_trader_275100
Sep 17, 2015からメンバー
121 投稿
Aug 03, 2017 at 06:42
Everything is possible at FOREX :)
+1650 % in 3 days at danger Period - End Of MONTH
Have a good profit Guys!
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/apple1st/system-nfp/2204999
+1650 % in 3 days at danger Period - End Of MONTH
Have a good profit Guys!
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/apple1st/system-nfp/2204999
Aug 03, 2017 at 07:00
mflorin333 posted:
my portfolio, couple of ea's running since a half year, 200%, around 800 trades per month:
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/mflorin333/355403/1994355
made some fixes in June, since then it works fine again. Any questions, hit me up.
you dont meet the criteria either
Aug 03, 2017 at 07:00
apple1st posted:
Everything is possible at FOREX :)
+1650 % in 3 days at danger Period - End Of MONTH
Have a good profit Guys!
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/apple1st/system-nfp/2204999
you dont meet the criteria either
