What's the best way to trade Martingale Forex Trading
Oct 31, 2014 at 15:08
What's the best way to trade Martingale Forex Trading , any idea??
Its working No GRID, No MARG, No ARB, No HEDGE ,No HFT Open and Close single trade at a time Avg. Trade Length: 1 Hour Expectancy: 1.8 Pips Near 600 Pips Made in 2.5 months Verified Real Account (Double Green Ticks)
Nov 01, 2014 at 10:48
Well ill give you my personal advice:
Don't use a Martingale system, because in a few trades you could lose all your investment easily
But if you really feel like using a Martingale then the easiest thing you could do is get/make an EA which invests, let's say, 1 lot then code it that when the stop loss is reached open a trade with 2 times the amount
But as i said, if i was you, i would stay away from any Martingale driven strategy
Don't use a Martingale system, because in a few trades you could lose all your investment easily
But if you really feel like using a Martingale then the easiest thing you could do is get/make an EA which invests, let's say, 1 lot then code it that when the stop loss is reached open a trade with 2 times the amount
But as i said, if i was you, i would stay away from any Martingale driven strategy
forex_trader_139412
Mitglied seit Jul 16, 2013
385 Posts
Nov 01, 2014 at 17:08
Also not a fan of martingale/grid type strategies, but there are some who swear by this and will show you how well this performs on demos, they even run demo accounts for you to track the account's performance on myfxbook, but as soon as @*& hits the fan and dd seems like it is going south, they quickly disable the mt4, and only show you how well it performed. I have seen many traders lose lots of $ going live with martingale EAs that did super on demos, but then crashed their accounts in live. There was a time that I investigated the whole use-martingale-and-withdraw-regularly idea, but I was not convinced.
If you still want to go this route here is a little bot that might be of help. You can set it to cease all trading on your account, once a certain % or value is reached. Quite helpful in case you wake up to find your account wiped. Even though I don't use a martingale strategy, I use this bot as a safe guard, thankfully it has never been hit, but if my EA gets caught in a horrible trade, I am prepared.
If you still want to go this route here is a little bot that might be of help. You can set it to cease all trading on your account, once a certain % or value is reached. Quite helpful in case you wake up to find your account wiped. Even though I don't use a martingale strategy, I use this bot as a safe guard, thankfully it has never been hit, but if my EA gets caught in a horrible trade, I am prepared.
Mitglied seit Jun 28, 2011
465 Posts
Nov 01, 2014 at 23:13
A martingale system isn't a trading system, it is a recovery system. If your trading system was 100% right, you would not need any recovery system so a martingale recovery is good only if your trading system is correct more than 50% of the time. There is also a slow recovery system which doubles the value of the trades until the lost amount is fully recovered.
It is far better to use the two together so you can limit the martingale in size and use the slow recovery to recover from a martingale failure.
However, the martingale still grows too fast and you can reduce the amount of increase by passing some of the recovery over to the amount of pips required for recovery. Lets compare a martingale sequence to a Fibonacci sequence.
Iteration Martingale value Fibonacci
1 1 1
2 2 2
3 4 3
4 8 5
5 16 8
As you can see, the size of the martingale is twice the size of the Fibonacci sequence by the 5th iteration. The difference is that the martingale will fully recover all losses with the same number of pips (range size) as the previous losses where the Fibonacci will start at the same size but will grow to 1.62 times the normal range size. It will never get larger than 1.62 times the size, the number of pips, as the losses were.
You can and should use a slow recovery system to compensate for any Fibonacci failures. A failure is reaching a predefined number of iterations before starting over at twice the size. This is called recovery mode and you would stay in recovery mode until you have fully recovered from the failure.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/ForexAssistant/pegasus/670938
This system is in recovery mode. It was hell getting it to take a double loss but I finally was able to do it so I could test out a worse case scenario, I almost got it to a 50% draw-down to see how long it would take to recover but the price of the eur/usd jumped over a weekend and the program recovered a huge amount before I could intervene. So I gave up and am testing from where it jumped too. However, all the history is there so you can follow the logic.
Of course if you really want to learn systemic trading, I am excepting students.
Hope this helps,
Bob
It is far better to use the two together so you can limit the martingale in size and use the slow recovery to recover from a martingale failure.
However, the martingale still grows too fast and you can reduce the amount of increase by passing some of the recovery over to the amount of pips required for recovery. Lets compare a martingale sequence to a Fibonacci sequence.
Iteration Martingale value Fibonacci
1 1 1
2 2 2
3 4 3
4 8 5
5 16 8
As you can see, the size of the martingale is twice the size of the Fibonacci sequence by the 5th iteration. The difference is that the martingale will fully recover all losses with the same number of pips (range size) as the previous losses where the Fibonacci will start at the same size but will grow to 1.62 times the normal range size. It will never get larger than 1.62 times the size, the number of pips, as the losses were.
You can and should use a slow recovery system to compensate for any Fibonacci failures. A failure is reaching a predefined number of iterations before starting over at twice the size. This is called recovery mode and you would stay in recovery mode until you have fully recovered from the failure.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/ForexAssistant/pegasus/670938
This system is in recovery mode. It was hell getting it to take a double loss but I finally was able to do it so I could test out a worse case scenario, I almost got it to a 50% draw-down to see how long it would take to recover but the price of the eur/usd jumped over a weekend and the program recovered a huge amount before I could intervene. So I gave up and am testing from where it jumped too. However, all the history is there so you can follow the logic.
Of course if you really want to learn systemic trading, I am excepting students.
Hope this helps,
Bob
where research touches lives.
Nov 06, 2014 at 07:47
ForexAssistant posted:
A martingale system isn't a trading system, it is a recovery system. If your trading system was 100% right, you would not need any recovery system so a martingale recovery is good only if your trading system is correct more than 50% of the time. There is also a slow recovery system which doubles the value of the trades until the lost amount is fully recovered.
It is far better to use the two together so you can limit the martingale in size and use the slow recovery to recover from a martingale failure.
However, the martingale still grows too fast and you can reduce the amount of increase by passing some of the recovery over to the amount of pips required for recovery. Lets compare a martingale sequence to a Fibonacci sequence.
Iteration Martingale value Fibonacci
1 1 1
2 2 2
3 4 3
4 8 5
5 16 8
As you can see, the size of the martingale is twice the size of the Fibonacci sequence by the 5th iteration. The difference is that the martingale will fully recover all losses with the same number of pips (range size) as the previous losses where the Fibonacci will start at the same size but will grow to 1.62 times the normal range size. It will never get larger than 1.62 times the size, the number of pips, as the losses were.
You can and should use a slow recovery system to compensate for any Fibonacci failures. A failure is reaching a predefined number of iterations before starting over at twice the size. This is called recovery mode and you would stay in recovery mode until you have fully recovered from the failure.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/ForexAssistant/pegasus/670938
This system is in recovery mode. It was hell getting it to take a double loss but I finally was able to do it so I could test out a worse case scenario, I almost got it to a 50% draw-down to see how long it would take to recover but the price of the eur/usd jumped over a weekend and the program recovered a huge amount before I could intervene. So I gave up and am testing from where it jumped too. However, all the history is there so you can follow the logic.
Of course if you really want to learn systemic trading, I am excepting students.
Hope this helps,
Bob
you are correct bob
that why i am working on this ea same results on all pairs expt eurusd
Its working No GRID, No MARG, No ARB, No HEDGE ,No HFT Open and Close single trade at a time Avg. Trade Length: 1 Hour Expectancy: 1.8 Pips Near 600 Pips Made in 2.5 months Verified Real Account (Double Green Ticks)
Mitglied seit Apr 08, 2011
9 Posts
Nov 16, 2014 at 15:55
Some my friends try code over 30 types of martingale EA already, now he said no type win, all Martingale system crash/wipe out all accounts.
So sad but true!
So sad but true!
Profit for investor
forex_trader_29148
Mitglied seit Feb 11, 2011
1916 Posts
Nov 16, 2014 at 16:04
if you are serious with your money you won't use any martingale
Mitglied seit Jun 28, 2011
465 Posts
Nov 16, 2014 at 19:45
rob559 posted:
if you are serious with your money you won't use any martingale
I've never seen an absolute that held true for very long. All you need is one recovery program to work and all the deeply held truths that 'Martingales will eventually blow up your account' are seen for what they truly are, fear of the unknown. Do you think any trading system works right from the first? No, that's not how it's done. First we get something that seems like it will work then work with it for years.
The problem with the young traders is that they haven't had enough time on the job to know what works, so nothing does. If you can go away and come back in 20 years or so, this brand new market will have been around long enough for us to develop something that will work and earn you about what stocks are making you right now.
I have a recovery system that works, although I still have a little bug in the program that I am fighting with. So I know from actual experience that there is a recovery system (which is generally called a Martingale) that does work therefore the advice to not try something that does work because there was 30 ones that didn't, seems to be somewhat irrational.
May I suggest a statement more on the order of, 'I have been trading (BLANK) number of years and have yet to see a (System in question) to work without eventually crashing the account'.
I have been trading the forex market since June 2006 and in all that time, I have only seen one recovery system that I would put my money with.
Remember, 'If man was meant to fly, he would have wings', so we just made some. Everything is impossible until someone is the first to do it.
May the Forex be with you.
Bob
where research touches lives.
Nov 17, 2014 at 07:58
Well I understand everything about martingale and risk, I start trading in 2007 ,1st 2 years in local market after 2009 in forex, i also have strategies that even work without martingale but I like it too, now its my martingale ea performance on tick data test with Fix 300$ SL on a pair of trades , how you think guys hows it look like ?? 😀😀😀
Its working No GRID, No MARG, No ARB, No HEDGE ,No HFT Open and Close single trade at a time Avg. Trade Length: 1 Hour Expectancy: 1.8 Pips Near 600 Pips Made in 2.5 months Verified Real Account (Double Green Ticks)
Mitglied seit Sep 09, 2014
65 Posts
Nov 24, 2014 at 08:08
U may double your deals in way if you have endless amount of money... don't use such strategy if you have small depo
There can't be enough money
Mitglied seit Aug 30, 2012
104 Posts
Nov 25, 2014 at 07:47
Best way to trade martingale is 'to not trade it' avoid it and you will be a sure winner!
LIKE MY TRADE ALERT POST! TRY IT FREE! NO SIGN UP! 100% FREE - w.w.w.ForexAlertSystem.c.o.m "CLICK ON BIG GREEN TRIAL BUTTON"
Mitglied seit Jun 28, 2011
465 Posts
Nov 25, 2014 at 14:51
blownaccount posted:
Best way to trade martingale is 'to not trade it' avoid it and you will be a sure winner!
Best way to trade the forex market is 'to not trade it' avoid it and you will be a sure winner!
Makes about as much sense, doesn't it?
Bob
where research touches lives.
Mitglied seit Feb 22, 2011
4862 Posts
Nov 25, 2014 at 15:11
rajivzz posted:Just avoid it
What's the best way to trade Martingale Forex Trading , any idea??
Mitglied seit Jun 28, 2011
465 Posts
Nov 25, 2014 at 15:53
While I certainly respect Vontogr, I have to disagree on these grounds.
A trading system has 3 properties, 1) it will determine whether to buy or sell, does a Martingale do that?
2) it determines when to get in and when to get out of a trade, does a martingale do that?
3) A trading system will determine how large the first trade should be, martingales tell you how many times to multiply the first trade's size but not the actual size of the first trade.
The only logical conclusion is that the martingale is not a trading system. Then what is it? It's a recovery system. A recovery system is an add on to a trading system but it can't make a bad trading system good. If you can't win over 50% of your trades without a recovery system, adding a recovery system will not make your system work, it may at best delay the results.
If you know what your doing, adding a recovery system makes good sense as it will improve your performance.
Bob
A trading system has 3 properties, 1) it will determine whether to buy or sell, does a Martingale do that?
2) it determines when to get in and when to get out of a trade, does a martingale do that?
3) A trading system will determine how large the first trade should be, martingales tell you how many times to multiply the first trade's size but not the actual size of the first trade.
The only logical conclusion is that the martingale is not a trading system. Then what is it? It's a recovery system. A recovery system is an add on to a trading system but it can't make a bad trading system good. If you can't win over 50% of your trades without a recovery system, adding a recovery system will not make your system work, it may at best delay the results.
If you know what your doing, adding a recovery system makes good sense as it will improve your performance.
Bob
where research touches lives.
Mitglied seit Nov 21, 2011
1718 Posts
Nov 25, 2014 at 23:32
Simply reverse the strategy from martingale... Start to add trades to a winning position. It's pretty hard!... but it worth it.
Mitglied seit Aug 30, 2012
104 Posts
Nov 26, 2014 at 07:51
We are Running a Recovery System now! off to a bumpy start. with all the news but you will see it improve over the next several days the draw down looks high but its not, it just seems that way because its a micro account. you should keep an eye on it. totally different system logic this one is adaptive and can learn patterns and has a reasoning Algo built in, it also has the ability to learn, remember events and compare as well as predict. we originally built it as a trade assistant type of project but it turned into somthing else. we noticed it was able to out trade, people who were testing on samples given out. it had better Money management ability and reasoning skills in the way it handled every market condition for max efficiency.
we have been working on it for the past few years. it worked well in a large account. but we wanted to see how it held up on a live under funded micro account. So at the moment we are battle testing it. setting the risk size to double that of the normal settings as well as allowing it to trade even though news events. have to test it for full robustness in all conditions. channel markets and news. if it holds out till Next March, will be looking to start a new hedge fund with it.... but martingale is to hit & miss just not worth the risk, its better to come up with new market theory's instead of regurgitating someones else ideas. this is how trading progresses.
we are working with different market theories that are never mentioned on forex forums, and that's usually how you will find the profits. look were others do not look.
we have been working on it for the past few years. it worked well in a large account. but we wanted to see how it held up on a live under funded micro account. So at the moment we are battle testing it. setting the risk size to double that of the normal settings as well as allowing it to trade even though news events. have to test it for full robustness in all conditions. channel markets and news. if it holds out till Next March, will be looking to start a new hedge fund with it.... but martingale is to hit & miss just not worth the risk, its better to come up with new market theory's instead of regurgitating someones else ideas. this is how trading progresses.
we are working with different market theories that are never mentioned on forex forums, and that's usually how you will find the profits. look were others do not look.
LIKE MY TRADE ALERT POST! TRY IT FREE! NO SIGN UP! 100% FREE - w.w.w.ForexAlertSystem.c.o.m "CLICK ON BIG GREEN TRIAL BUTTON"
Mitglied seit Aug 30, 2012
104 Posts
Nov 26, 2014 at 08:04
the math behind martingale in the first 3 trades. 99% of what i have seen on martingale get this simple concept wrong
LIKE MY TRADE ALERT POST! TRY IT FREE! NO SIGN UP! 100% FREE - w.w.w.ForexAlertSystem.c.o.m "CLICK ON BIG GREEN TRIAL BUTTON"
Mitglied seit Feb 22, 2011
4862 Posts
Nov 26, 2014 at 09:41
ForexAssistant posted:
While I certainly respect Vontogr, I have to disagree on these grounds.
A trading system has 3 properties, 1) it will determine whether to buy or sell, does a Martingale do that?
2) it determines when to get in and when to get out of a trade, does a martingale do that?
3) A trading system will determine how large the first trade should be, martingales tell you how many times to multiply the first trade's size but not the actual size of the first trade.
The only logical conclusion is that the martingale is not a trading system. Then what is it? It's a recovery system. A recovery system is an add on to a trading system but it can't make a bad trading system good. If you can't win over 50% of your trades without a recovery system, adding a recovery system will not make your system work, it may at best delay the results.
If you know what your doing, adding a recovery system makes good sense as it will improve your performance.
Bob
Nope,
martingale priciple is opening bigger and bigger positions to recover your loss.
At some moment you find out that your balance is not sufficient to open next position and you are done.
forex_trader_20011
Mitglied seit Oct 08, 2010
407 Posts
Nov 26, 2014 at 14:51
I have always avoided martingales. But, recently I thought I would try to design one. It may blow the account but so far so good.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/ibthescottyb/fx-rogue-wave-30-reversal/1054977
https://www.myfxbook.com/forex-charts/EURJPY,M30/29043/aAZvZp3nw7cj0vq
With the use of three indicators
Moving Average
MACD
Force Index
When they agree the trend is LONG, a BUY is placed at .01 Lots with a TP of 40 pips. If the order hit TP, a new order is opened at .01 continuing in the direction of the first.
IF the price action reverses, and the order goes negative 40 pips, an additional order is opened at .02 lots, with a TP of 50 pips and the TP of the 1st order is moved to this level also.
If the price continues to go negative 40 pips, an additional order is opened at .04 lots, with a TP of 50 pips and the TP of the 1st order and 2nd is moved to this level also. The process continues until the price reverses positive. I have a limit of 11 iterations of the Martingale so the maximum lot size is 10.24 lots.
My broker allows hedging, so while the price is going negative on the LONG trades, it is profiting on the SHORT trades that were opened when the MA, MACD and FI lined up on the downtrend.
With this strategy, the price would have to go against me almost 500 pips without a 50 pip retrace during that entire time to lose. Yes, it is possible. But, all in fun. Never trade with funds you can't afford to lose.
Also, to help negate a loss, I have three different accounts running the same EA that were started at different price points, so if one of the accounts were to blow. I just move money between the accounts to perpetuate my income stream.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/ibthescottyb/fx-rogue-wave-30-reversal/1054977
https://www.myfxbook.com/forex-charts/EURJPY,M30/29043/aAZvZp3nw7cj0vq
With the use of three indicators
Moving Average
MACD
Force Index
When they agree the trend is LONG, a BUY is placed at .01 Lots with a TP of 40 pips. If the order hit TP, a new order is opened at .01 continuing in the direction of the first.
IF the price action reverses, and the order goes negative 40 pips, an additional order is opened at .02 lots, with a TP of 50 pips and the TP of the 1st order is moved to this level also.
If the price continues to go negative 40 pips, an additional order is opened at .04 lots, with a TP of 50 pips and the TP of the 1st order and 2nd is moved to this level also. The process continues until the price reverses positive. I have a limit of 11 iterations of the Martingale so the maximum lot size is 10.24 lots.
My broker allows hedging, so while the price is going negative on the LONG trades, it is profiting on the SHORT trades that were opened when the MA, MACD and FI lined up on the downtrend.
With this strategy, the price would have to go against me almost 500 pips without a 50 pip retrace during that entire time to lose. Yes, it is possible. But, all in fun. Never trade with funds you can't afford to lose.
Also, to help negate a loss, I have three different accounts running the same EA that were started at different price points, so if one of the accounts were to blow. I just move money between the accounts to perpetuate my income stream.
Mitglied seit Jun 28, 2011
465 Posts
Nov 27, 2014 at 02:03
Vontogr, why do you say that? You use stop-losses in technical trading why would you not use some limit on a recovery system. I use a Fibonacci sequence as apposed to a martingale series because I get 2 more iterations for less draw.
Martingale = 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, gives a total draw for 8 iterations = 255 times the size of the first trade.
Fibonacci = 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, total draw for 10 iterations = 232 times first trade.
I use 10 iterations as my limit, after that I use a slow recovery to compensate for the infrequent times that the primary recovery system fails. A slow recovery is starting back at the base size but every trade is doubled. One half of the doubled trade is for current profits while the other half of the trade pays off the loss. After the loss has been recovered, we drop back to single trade size.
So you see, it does not get bigger and bigger, it has a limit. Only amateurs would try to use a recovery system without some limits in place. I don't think anyone believes that I am one of those.
Bob
Martingale = 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, gives a total draw for 8 iterations = 255 times the size of the first trade.
Fibonacci = 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, total draw for 10 iterations = 232 times first trade.
I use 10 iterations as my limit, after that I use a slow recovery to compensate for the infrequent times that the primary recovery system fails. A slow recovery is starting back at the base size but every trade is doubled. One half of the doubled trade is for current profits while the other half of the trade pays off the loss. After the loss has been recovered, we drop back to single trade size.
So you see, it does not get bigger and bigger, it has a limit. Only amateurs would try to use a recovery system without some limits in place. I don't think anyone believes that I am one of those.
Bob
where research touches lives.
