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Can the real traders please stand up

Elkart
Elkart
Feb 20 2010 at 00:49
941 posts
I'm a global hillbilly. I do two things. I trade and I dive. If I'm not trading it's because I'm on a ship and if I'm not on a ship I'm trading. In fact now days I trade even when I'm on the ship. But ironically the ships happen less and less. Yet the traveling is more and more. Haven't been home for over a year now. I write to my car every month.

This lifestyle has taken me around the world, as far as I can tell, at least twice. Over the years I've met many people that I got to know on forums. I make a point of meeting up with traders I speak to when I'm in their area. And that's how I ended up once in the Singapore library staring at a Bloomberg terminal with a real trader. Only a poor trader would know there's a Bloomberg terminal in a library in Singapore. Cause that's the trader who made a plan to get what he needs.

He's not a wealthy guy. Has about a 10k account I think. Every month he does about 50% on that. Covers his bills. Keeps the family alive. Singapore is expensive, so ends just meet. Not much work for an aspiring trader due to the global crisis. And every month, he does 50% again and again and again. I can't do that. Practically no one can.

Then there's my German friend. Same thing. Every month it's hand to mouth in fx. And then there's......the list goes on.

So last night I have a 'fund manager' who can't make 1% in three months, try justify his existence by saying 'you don't know how macro funds work'. He talks down to me. Because I know 'less' and use stupid Metatrader. Somehow having a 'fund' makes it's acceptable to not perform? Not only acceptable, but desirable. And then 'people' complain because I'm being belligerent.

I know about funds. Madoff had one. LTC was one. Enron had some. All wealthy outstanding citizens and corporations.

Metatrader might have bad rep. But it has done one thing. We no longer have to hand over our money. We can keep it in our hands. Out of the hands of those who will take it and stick enough of it in trust funds so they can live rich while the fund goes bust.

I'm a wild card. But I'm a real trader. I make my money from trading and diving. Not from taking advantage of other people. And I am proud of that.

The best traders in the world no one hears about. It's the guy in the Singapore library (walk in there any time of day and you'll see one or two hanging around waiting for the terminal), it's my german friend. It's the guy who pays his bills every month, the guy that has to take the trade to eat. It's that Malaysian dude trading $100 to $200 and the Indian dude that heard he can make $100 a month using forex and struggles for 5 years to do it.

Those are the guys I respect. Not Mr. give me your money so I can take advantage of you. I call it the way it is. A spade is a spade. And with a little bit of luck, a lot of practice and good old stupid metatrader we might just be able to change a few things.
pc8multifx (pc8multifx)
Feb 20 2010 at 13:13
879 posts
Metatrader may have its flaws, but it has revolutionized the (CCY) trading world over the last couple of years, at least for us, the private traders, bc its causing an healthy competition between brokers offering mt4.

 And that's the most important part IMHO.

Never before we had such a variety of MM,NDD,STP, ECN look a like and real ECN mt4 broker to choose from. This gives me the opportunity to test every strategy on all of them and I can see what fits best. That's trading paradise for me...

 Long live mt4! 😄
WOOOOOBIE (klaatu)
Feb 23 2010 at 08:19
26 posts
Its one thing to risk 1k - 10k and make 50%... it's another to risk a hundred million to make the same. Different worlds. Real Forex desks work in many different ways.. what is the point in claiming one is more 'real' than the other? Did the fund manager beat you up?
Fill or Kill (cateful)
Feb 23 2010 at 09:14
87 posts

klaatu posted:
    Its one thing to risk 1k - 10k and make 50%... it's another to risk a hundred million to make the same. Different worlds. Real Forex desks work in many different ways.. what is the point in claiming one is more 'real' than the other? Did the fund manager beat you up?

LOL.
Elkart
Elkart
Feb 23 2010 at 09:50
941 posts
No. Not at all.

I can't say what I want to. I'm to passionate about this subject. I said my bit and from here on I'm lurking. Just here for the stats.

Lion Asset Management (WhyLose)
Feb 23 2010 at 10:45
102 posts

Elkart posted:
  Singapore is expensive, so ends just meet. Not much work for an aspiring trader due to the global crisis. And every month, he does 50% again and again and again. I can't do that. Practically no one can.

It was 10$ for a beer at Raffles last year. Crazy money. But 50% every month. Come on!! I'm delighted with 5%.
Time is more valuable than money. You can get more money, but you cannot get more time.
Elkart
Elkart
Feb 23 2010 at 11:57
941 posts
You know 'Live', the rock band?

They went there. Played in a bar. In US they fill stadiums. That still blows my mind. Imagine stumbling around the place looking for a beer, you hear some tunes and walk into the bar to find one of the biggest rock bands in the world playing...

Night life is awesome, but to participate properly you need serious cash. Easy to blow $1k in a night there....
PipCollector
Feb 24 2010 at 16:16
92 posts
Hi Elkart.

Obviously different people have different views as to how you define a forex trader.

The 1% return for 3 months does sound like it's not worth the time spent to make it, however as your investment grows, the return you're targeting for decreases - it's an inverted correlation.

50% on a 10K account sounds good, but won't be practical on an account of 100K and more.

I'm sure anyone here thought of himself at some point as a trader, or else he wouldn't waste his time with forex.

Patience is a virtue.
pc8multifx (pc8multifx)
Feb 24 2010 at 16:35
879 posts

PipCollector posted:
    Hi Elkart.

Obviously different people have different views as to how you define a forex trader.

The 1% return for 3 months does sound like it's not worth the time spent to make it, however as your investment grows, the return you're targeting for decreases - it's an inverted correlation.

50% on a 10K account sounds good, but won't be practical on an account of 100K and more.

I'm sure anyone here thought of himself at some point as a trader, or else he wouldn't waste his time with forex.




Its practical, believe it or not....that's why I spend my time with forex trading. 1% ROI in 3 month is a bad joke, even on a bank acc u can get this w/o taking risks
The Money Factory (Mikeyroll)
Mar 02 2010 at 11:58
3 posts
I agree with pc8multifx. I used to make 8% a month trading equities. 1% in 3 months is terrible. That's 4% a year. I moved to forex because I got tired of having to maintain a $25k balance to daytrade. I can trade with much less capital and move my other funds elsewhere.

50% on a 10k account is just as practical on a 100k account or more. There is plenty of liquidity in the market. I started with $4k. It took me about a month to get my trading system/strategy down after switching to forex. I think I can do about 15% a week with little risk. We'll see how it goes this month using the same techniques and strategies I used in February.
If it works, use it.
bwana
Mar 08 2010 at 16:27
3 posts

Mikeyroll posted:
    I agree with pc8multifx. I used to make 8% a month trading equities. 1% in 3 months is terrible. That's 4% a year. I moved to forex because I got tired of having to maintain a $25k balance to daytrade. I can trade with much less capital and move my other funds elsewhere.

50% on a 10k account is just as practical on a 100k account or more. There is plenty of liquidity in the market. I started with $4k. It took me about a month to get my trading system/strategy down after switching to forex. I think I can do about 15% a week with little risk. We'll see how it goes this month using the same techniques and strategies I used in February.

Hello, how do you do 15% a week??
arsa
Mar 08 2010 at 21:56
8 posts
Elkart,

non of my business, but you should suggest your friends to work at hedge funds or banks. If they can prove nice record they will be more than happy to help em.

If i got it right they need more cash...
Elkart
Elkart
Mar 08 2010 at 23:30
941 posts
They've tried, believe me.

One even got as far as to work for funds twice. Both folded before he could really prove anything.
arsa
Mar 09 2010 at 09:12
8 posts
folded? tried to look the definition but it should be slang. so what does it mean? :)
Elkart
Elkart
Mar 09 2010 at 09:20
941 posts
Went under, like folding your hand in a game of poker.

Elkart
Elkart
Mar 09 2010 at 09:24
941 posts
Fund are miserable things. Deeply unethical.

Only people who get wealthy out of them are the fund owners and people placing the funds.

When's the last time you saw a rich pensioner who retired early because of fund growth? I used to be FA (sort off), and the most common call I got was bankrupt pensioners. Can't afford the medical insurance anymore.

Did all the right things their whole life. Had the bond, paid the life insurance, invested in RA's, pensions and funds...and at 80 want to shoot themselves 'cuase the medical bills are to much.

Yet the fatcat fund owner is having a heart attack somewhere from over eating.



FinanSquare
Mar 09 2010 at 14:01
11 posts
Hi!

Founds and Banks sucks, they live from or life savings… it’s like getting legally robbed!
And just one thing, you can have 10K or 100.000.000.000.000 it’s all about the risk…
If you play, let’s say, RR 3:1 with 1,5% risk on every trade you will get +4,5% in every profitable trades and -1,5% on non profitable trades… it doesn’t matter if you have a 10k or 100k even a 100M account it’s always a -1,5% or +4,5% on your account.

So if you tell me that you only make a 1% 3 month… I will ask you: what is your risk per trade and your R to R ratio? If the RR is less than 1,5:1 you’re not a trader, you are a gambler.
1% risk its ok if you are scared of big numbers… but real traders risk 2%.

No offense but that “found manager” sucks! I had a very bad day today but have +1,8% and for this week +15,03% last week was -5% or something like that… 50% monthly is not impossible, if you do “real world” trading you can even do more.
Regards.
Robert
robw135
Mar 09 2010 at 21:19
140 posts
LOL yes the 1% in 3 months is ridiculous and he should get in the habit of explaining his existence daily, maybe something good will come from that.

 Technically it shouldn't matter what the $ amount is in the account as long as you follow your rules but in practice its a much different thing, every level (everybody has their own) brings more emotions, but still 1% - 3 months c'mon.

I've only been to to 6 figure accounts so far so I don't know what the emotions are above that but it aint that bad at 6.

Regards
MIDASUser
Mar 29 2010 at 23:48
84 posts
I don't consider myself in anyway a very experienced trader, but even I'm getting almost 20% a month since October! Well the bot is in anyways! LOL
When everything else out there is just not good enough, design your own! MIDAS
Hernan Segovia (Spyfrat)
Mar 30 2010 at 06:40
52 posts
re first post. wow what an inspiring piece sir, very inspiring indeed. :
God is great all the time
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