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EAs do not work for me! Its much better to do manual trades.

expert2trade
Dec 12 2014 at 14:31
37 posts
togr posted:
ForexAssistant posted:
“Agree that 29.09% is not a big profit. And drawdown is 75%?! man, it's not good.
There are many manual traders with a drawdown less then 30% and their profit is more then 30%. You have to work with your trading system!”

Well, it depends on what the 75% draw was the result of. The higher the percentage of draw, the higher the efficiency of the system so long as it never reached 100%. If the 75% is a worst case scenario not likely to be repeated within our life time and the constant draw is less than 50%, you actually have a pretty safe system. On the other hand, if you have only been trading for less than a year and the draw is normally over to 50%, yes, then you may need help.

The draw is a measure of how hot your system is. If your draw is never over 25% Then you should double the size of the trade to double the profit and have a draw of around 50%. I look at 50% as the half way between profit and risk, however it really depends on the system.

Another indicator of risk is the profit percentage. If a system got over 5% a month, I would be hesitant to put real money into it until I saw and understood how it works. More profit – more risk. Professional traders would give their soul for a constant 5% per month and reasonable risk, except as we all know, professional traders have no souls. Goldman-Sachs is the valley of the damned.

Bob

@ForexAssistant
Bob
With all the respect to you I disagree. Any system with 75% DD is dangerous and very close to account end. It does not actually matter why.

But the drawdown is never affecting the profits rolling in. So a drawdown early does not mean that the account cannot be profitable in the future. I find it odd that drawdown is given so much importance
Yes! with the right skill....its possible to make 40% a day in Forex.
vontogr (togr)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:33
4862 posts
CrazyTrader posted:
Hopefully, I will show you what an EA must do to to get a chance to get successfull.
1) Equity always above growth (Orange > Red) => Closing loser trades, & leave wining ones.
2) Average profit > Average Loss => Risk/Reward 1/2 minimum.
3) Drawdown < 10% => Make sure your account will never blow out
4) Winning ratio => don't care about it.

5) Live trades as example.
@CrazyTrader
ad #1
That's nonsense. At the very moment you open the trade the equity drops below balance. As you pay to your broker, as there is always some sllipage, etc.. So it is impossible to trade the way you described.
CrazyTraderfx (CrazyTrader)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:45
1718 posts
togr posted:
ad #1
That's nonsense. At the very moment you open the trade the equity drops below balance. As you pay to your broker, as there is always some sllipage, etc.. So it is impossible to trade the way you described.

Let me explain to you what I mean.... I'm no talking about spread:



90% of accounts get equity below growth, meaning they always keep their loser trades that sometimes is really scary and make huge impact on DD.

Attachments:

vontogr (togr)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:47
4862 posts
expert2trade posted:
togr posted:
ForexAssistant posted:
“Agree that 29.09% is not a big profit. And drawdown is 75%?! man, it's not good.
There are many manual traders with a drawdown less then 30% and their profit is more then 30%. You have to work with your trading system!”

Well, it depends on what the 75% draw was the result of. The higher the percentage of draw, the higher the efficiency of the system so long as it never reached 100%. If the 75% is a worst case scenario not likely to be repeated within our life time and the constant draw is less than 50%, you actually have a pretty safe system. On the other hand, if you have only been trading for less than a year and the draw is normally over to 50%, yes, then you may need help.

The draw is a measure of how hot your system is. If your draw is never over 25% Then you should double the size of the trade to double the profit and have a draw of around 50%. I look at 50% as the half way between profit and risk, however it really depends on the system.

Another indicator of risk is the profit percentage. If a system got over 5% a month, I would be hesitant to put real money into it until I saw and understood how it works. More profit – more risk. Professional traders would give their soul for a constant 5% per month and reasonable risk, except as we all know, professional traders have no souls. Goldman-Sachs is the valley of the damned.

Bob

@ForexAssistant
Bob
With all the respect to you I disagree. Any system with 75% DD is dangerous and very close to account end. It does not actually matter why.

But the drawdown is never affecting the profits rolling in. So a drawdown early does not mean that the account cannot be profitable in the future. I find it odd that drawdown is given so much importance

DD does affect the profit a lot. At the time you hit 100% and wipe the whole account your profit will be zero:)
MOMAFOREX (FERMONZOR)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:48
135 posts
togr posted:
Chikot posted:
I would not trust EA. It cannot adjust and market is not that perfect not to mention going through various cycles. Experienced trader with self control will do better than any EA especially on risk control side...
Also, how can I trust EA if I cannot trust even my internet connections...
The less things one has to rely upon the better.
KISS....

Well can you prove it? Can you post some manual trader who is successful in long term?
As trader with self control you should follow some clear trading rules.
If you have such rules EA can always execute them faster and more precisely.


Look at my stats.... I manage some accounts & own money 100% MANUALLY, yes I think I´m a good example of a succesful trader and there are a lot of success traders out there that opérate Manually.... why i have not posted more trading record, because i was not interested in this type of pages, but I have found it a lot of fun here.... anyways you can watch my account for the following months and confirm what I´m writing....

Are there succesful traders in the long run??
YES, about 5% of all forex traders..... you have to look the following profile in order to be a succesful trader in the long term beyond all this sh...t of systems, backtestings, EA, and stuff like that..... THE SUCCESFUL TRADER IS A GUY with the following skills:
- Discipline
- Self Concious
- Responsible
- Is a guy that does not like gambling or do not have that need; does not want to become rich in 1 month....
- Consistent with his system along the way (good times/bad times)
- A guy that has daily routines
- A guy that exercise..
- A guy that in his mind get below 10% per month is amazing.
- A guy that does not work for the brokers, in terms that he does not get money from the spread.

I´m sure you are gonna tell me that this is bulls...t but I have been for several years in this business, and when i talk to newly investors, I always do this exercise, and the success rate is high.... on the other hand the HOW is relatively easy when you have this inner skills....

FM
THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT.
MOMAFOREX (FERMONZOR)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:48
135 posts
togr posted:
expert2trade posted:
togr posted:
ForexAssistant posted:
“Agree that 29.09% is not a big profit. And drawdown is 75%?! man, it's not good.
There are many manual traders with a drawdown less then 30% and their profit is more then 30%. You have to work with your trading system!”

Well, it depends on what the 75% draw was the result of. The higher the percentage of draw, the higher the efficiency of the system so long as it never reached 100%. If the 75% is a worst case scenario not likely to be repeated within our life time and the constant draw is less than 50%, you actually have a pretty safe system. On the other hand, if you have only been trading for less than a year and the draw is normally over to 50%, yes, then you may need help.

The draw is a measure of how hot your system is. If your draw is never over 25% Then you should double the size of the trade to double the profit and have a draw of around 50%. I look at 50% as the half way between profit and risk, however it really depends on the system.

Another indicator of risk is the profit percentage. If a system got over 5% a month, I would be hesitant to put real money into it until I saw and understood how it works. More profit – more risk. Professional traders would give their soul for a constant 5% per month and reasonable risk, except as we all know, professional traders have no souls. Goldman-Sachs is the valley of the damned.

Bob

@ForexAssistant
Bob
With all the respect to you I disagree. Any system with 75% DD is dangerous and very close to account end. It does not actually matter why.

But the drawdown is never affecting the profits rolling in. So a drawdown early does not mean that the account cannot be profitable in the future. I find it odd that drawdown is given so much importance

DD does affect the profit a lot. At the time you hit 100% and wipe the whole account your profit will be zero:)

Agree 100%
THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT.
vontogr (togr)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:49
4862 posts
CrazyTrader posted:
togr posted:
ad #1
That's nonsense. At the very moment you open the trade the equity drops below balance. As you pay to your broker, as there is always some sllipage, etc.. So it is impossible to trade the way you described.

Let me explain to you what I mean.... I'm no talking about spread:



90% of accounts get equity below growth, meaning they always keep their loser trades that sometimes is really scary and make huge impact on DD.

Take it fron another point of view. If your equity is above balance it means you are in profit at that moment. If you don't close trades at that time it could easily turn in loss. So why keep them open?
vontogr (togr)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:53
4862 posts
FERMONZOR posted:
togr posted:
expert2trade posted:
togr posted:
ForexAssistant posted:
“Agree that 29.09% is not a big profit. And drawdown is 75%?! man, it's not good.
There are many manual traders with a drawdown less then 30% and their profit is more then 30%. You have to work with your trading system!”

Well, it depends on what the 75% draw was the result of. The higher the percentage of draw, the higher the efficiency of the system so long as it never reached 100%. If the 75% is a worst case scenario not likely to be repeated within our life time and the constant draw is less than 50%, you actually have a pretty safe system. On the other hand, if you have only been trading for less than a year and the draw is normally over to 50%, yes, then you may need help.

The draw is a measure of how hot your system is. If your draw is never over 25% Then you should double the size of the trade to double the profit and have a draw of around 50%. I look at 50% as the half way between profit and risk, however it really depends on the system.

Another indicator of risk is the profit percentage. If a system got over 5% a month, I would be hesitant to put real money into it until I saw and understood how it works. More profit – more risk. Professional traders would give their soul for a constant 5% per month and reasonable risk, except as we all know, professional traders have no souls. Goldman-Sachs is the valley of the damned.

Bob

@ForexAssistant
Bob
With all the respect to you I disagree. Any system with 75% DD is dangerous and very close to account end. It does not actually matter why.

But the drawdown is never affecting the profits rolling in. So a drawdown early does not mean that the account cannot be profitable in the future. I find it odd that drawdown is given so much importance

DD does affect the profit a lot. At the time you hit 100% and wipe the whole account your profit will be zero:)

Agree 100%
@FERMONZOR
I like your motto:)
MOMAFOREX (FERMONZOR)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:59
135 posts
togr posted:
FERMONZOR posted:
togr posted:
expert2trade posted:
togr posted:
ForexAssistant posted:
“Agree that 29.09% is not a big profit. And drawdown is 75%?! man, it's not good.
There are many manual traders with a drawdown less then 30% and their profit is more then 30%. You have to work with your trading system!”

Well, it depends on what the 75% draw was the result of. The higher the percentage of draw, the higher the efficiency of the system so long as it never reached 100%. If the 75% is a worst case scenario not likely to be repeated within our life time and the constant draw is less than 50%, you actually have a pretty safe system. On the other hand, if you have only been trading for less than a year and the draw is normally over to 50%, yes, then you may need help.

The draw is a measure of how hot your system is. If your draw is never over 25% Then you should double the size of the trade to double the profit and have a draw of around 50%. I look at 50% as the half way between profit and risk, however it really depends on the system.

Another indicator of risk is the profit percentage. If a system got over 5% a month, I would be hesitant to put real money into it until I saw and understood how it works. More profit – more risk. Professional traders would give their soul for a constant 5% per month and reasonable risk, except as we all know, professional traders have no souls. Goldman-Sachs is the valley of the damned.

Bob

@ForexAssistant
Bob
With all the respect to you I disagree. Any system with 75% DD is dangerous and very close to account end. It does not actually matter why.

But the drawdown is never affecting the profits rolling in. So a drawdown early does not mean that the account cannot be profitable in the future. I find it odd that drawdown is given so much importance

DD does affect the profit a lot. At the time you hit 100% and wipe the whole account your profit will be zero:)

Agree 100%
@FERMONZOR
I like your motto:)

Tks dude 😉
THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT.
vontogr (togr)
Dec 12 2014 at 14:59
4862 posts
FERMONZOR posted:
togr posted:
Chikot posted:
I would not trust EA. It cannot adjust and market is not that perfect not to mention going through various cycles. Experienced trader with self control will do better than any EA especially on risk control side...
Also, how can I trust EA if I cannot trust even my internet connections...
The less things one has to rely upon the better.
KISS....

Well can you prove it? Can you post some manual trader who is successful in long term?
As trader with self control you should follow some clear trading rules.
If you have such rules EA can always execute them faster and more precisely.


Look at my stats.... I manage some accounts & own money 100% MANUALLY, yes I think I´m a good example of a succesful trader and there are a lot of success traders out there that opérate Manually.... why i have not posted more trading record, because i was not interested in this type of pages, but I have found it a lot of fun here.... anyways you can watch my account for the following months and confirm what I´m writing....

Are there succesful traders in the long run??
YES, about 5% of all forex traders..... you have to look the following profile in order to be a succesful trader in the long term beyond all this sh...t of systems, backtestings, EA, and stuff like that..... THE SUCCESFUL TRADER IS A GUY with the following skills:
- Discipline
- Self Concious
- Responsible
- Is a guy that does not like gambling or do not have that need; does not want to become rich in 1 month....
- Consistent with his system along the way (good times/bad times)
- A guy that has daily routines
- A guy that exercise..
- A guy that in his mind get below 10% per month is amazing.
- A guy that does not work for the brokers, in terms that he does not get money from the spread.

I´m sure you are gonna tell me that this is bulls...t but I have been for several years in this business, and when i talk to newly investors, I always do this exercise, and the success rate is high.... on the other hand the HOW is relatively easy when you have this inner skills....

FM

Well you definitelly achieved some profit with acceptable DD and with manual trading.
But still EA is better
e.g. https://www.myfxbook.com/members/togr/caesar2markv/873349
MOMAFOREX (FERMONZOR)
Dec 12 2014 at 15:05
135 posts
togr posted:
FERMONZOR posted:
togr posted:
Chikot posted:
I would not trust EA. It cannot adjust and market is not that perfect not to mention going through various cycles. Experienced trader with self control will do better than any EA especially on risk control side...
Also, how can I trust EA if I cannot trust even my internet connections...
The less things one has to rely upon the better.
KISS....

Well can you prove it? Can you post some manual trader who is successful in long term?
As trader with self control you should follow some clear trading rules.
If you have such rules EA can always execute them faster and more precisely.


Look at my stats.... I manage some accounts & own money 100% MANUALLY, yes I think I´m a good example of a succesful trader and there are a lot of success traders out there that opérate Manually.... why i have not posted more trading record, because i was not interested in this type of pages, but I have found it a lot of fun here.... anyways you can watch my account for the following months and confirm what I´m writing....

Are there succesful traders in the long run??
YES, about 5% of all forex traders..... you have to look the following profile in order to be a succesful trader in the long term beyond all this sh...t of systems, backtestings, EA, and stuff like that..... THE SUCCESFUL TRADER IS A GUY with the following skills:
- Discipline
- Self Concious
- Responsible
- Is a guy that does not like gambling or do not have that need; does not want to become rich in 1 month....
- Consistent with his system along the way (good times/bad times)
- A guy that has daily routines
- A guy that exercise..
- A guy that in his mind get below 10% per month is amazing.
- A guy that does not work for the brokers, in terms that he does not get money from the spread.

I´m sure you are gonna tell me that this is bulls...t but I have been for several years in this business, and when i talk to newly investors, I always do this exercise, and the success rate is high.... on the other hand the HOW is relatively easy when you have this inner skills....

FM

Well you definitelly achieved some profit with acceptable DD and with manual trading.
But still EA is better
e.g. https://www.myfxbook.com/members/togr/caesar2markv/873349

You are right my friend! The results on your EA are amazing...... I have no arguments for a counter attack at the moment hehe!! by the way tks for your kind words about my results! There are a lot of nice information in your page, it seems you are in this business for real! It´s nice to find guys like you in this sea of hope, lies, pseudo traders, etc... 😉
THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT.
vontogr (togr)
Dec 12 2014 at 15:07
4862 posts
FERMONZOR posted:
togr posted:
FERMONZOR posted:
togr posted:
Chikot posted:
I would not trust EA. It cannot adjust and market is not that perfect not to mention going through various cycles. Experienced trader with self control will do better than any EA especially on risk control side...
Also, how can I trust EA if I cannot trust even my internet connections...
The less things one has to rely upon the better.
KISS....

Well can you prove it? Can you post some manual trader who is successful in long term?
As trader with self control you should follow some clear trading rules.
If you have such rules EA can always execute them faster and more precisely.


Look at my stats.... I manage some accounts & own money 100% MANUALLY, yes I think I´m a good example of a succesful trader and there are a lot of success traders out there that opérate Manually.... why i have not posted more trading record, because i was not interested in this type of pages, but I have found it a lot of fun here.... anyways you can watch my account for the following months and confirm what I´m writing....

Are there succesful traders in the long run??
YES, about 5% of all forex traders..... you have to look the following profile in order to be a succesful trader in the long term beyond all this sh...t of systems, backtestings, EA, and stuff like that..... THE SUCCESFUL TRADER IS A GUY with the following skills:
- Discipline
- Self Concious
- Responsible
- Is a guy that does not like gambling or do not have that need; does not want to become rich in 1 month....
- Consistent with his system along the way (good times/bad times)
- A guy that has daily routines
- A guy that exercise..
- A guy that in his mind get below 10% per month is amazing.
- A guy that does not work for the brokers, in terms that he does not get money from the spread.

I´m sure you are gonna tell me that this is bulls...t but I have been for several years in this business, and when i talk to newly investors, I always do this exercise, and the success rate is high.... on the other hand the HOW is relatively easy when you have this inner skills....

FM

Well you definitelly achieved some profit with acceptable DD and with manual trading.
But still EA is better
e.g. https://www.myfxbook.com/members/togr/caesar2markv/873349

You are right my friend! The results on your EA are amazing...... I have no arguments for a counter attack at the moment hehe!! by the way tks for your kind words about my results! There are a lot of nice information in your page, it seems you are in this business for real! It´s nice to find guys like you in this sea of hope, lies, pseudo traders, etc... 😉

Nice to meet you here. I usually just here see what you described - frustrated, unsuccessful traders just spitting around.:)
expert2trade
Dec 12 2014 at 15:11
37 posts
Even though my drawdown is 75%, my profits are getting more than that 😄

So the concept of drawdown sounds more like a school report card like full marks for math but drawdown for geography but can be bettered next time...but drawdown becomes like a bad label it seems
Yes! with the right skill....its possible to make 40% a day in Forex.
vontogr (togr)
Dec 12 2014 at 15:22
4862 posts
expert2trade posted:
Even though my drawdown is 75%, my profits are getting more than that 😄

So the concept of drawdown sounds more like a school report card like full marks for math but drawdown for geography but can be bettered next time...but drawdown becomes like a bad label it seems
@expert2trade
nope your profit are nothing special
especially compared to high DD
expert2trade
Dec 12 2014 at 15:24
37 posts
togr posted:
expert2trade posted:
Even though my drawdown is 75%, my profits are getting more than that 😄

So the concept of drawdown sounds more like a school report card like full marks for math but drawdown for geography but can be bettered next time...but drawdown becomes like a bad label it seems
@expert2trade
nope your profit are nothing special
especially compared to high DD

If someone wants to better their DD, how does that work ? Coz with the profits rolling in, I dont see the DD going down😄
Yes! with the right skill....its possible to make 40% a day in Forex.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Dec 12 2014 at 15:26
465 posts
'I´m sure you are gonna tell me that this is bulls...t but...'

I'm not going to tell you that, those are skills for success no matter what the industry. The daily routines being the exception as that is only for left brained personalities, the right brain creative types get there by a different route.

@Vontogr, because of your trading skills and time on the job, and because of your historical knowledge in trading with the exception of martingales of course, I will give way to your views as there may in fact be systems that require a 10:1 safety margin that I am unaware of.

But 75% is not almost a blown account, it is only 3 quarters of the way, and if that 75% represents a worst case scenario, it might make the heart race a little but nothing else.
Bob
where research touches lives.
MOMAFOREX (FERMONZOR)
Dec 12 2014 at 15:51
135 posts
ForexAssistant posted:
'I´m sure you are gonna tell me that this is bulls...t but...'

I'm not going to tell you that, those are skills for success no matter what the industry. The daily routines being the exception as that is only for left brained personalities, the right brain creative types get there by a different route.

@Vontogr, because of your trading skills and time on the job, and because of your historical knowledge in trading with the exception of martingales of course, I will give way to your views as there may in fact be systems that require a 10:1 safety margin that I am unaware of.

But 75% is not almost a blown account, it is only 3 quarters of the way, and if that 75% represents a worst case scenario, it might make the heart race a little but nothing else.
Bob

Daily Routines is the mirror of what this guy will do in trading.... right brain for forex trading? come on!!! leave this creative skills for those geeks from MIT, Harvard, etc that spend their lives creating indicators, ichimoku clouds and stuff like that.... I think that u & me as an average trader rules the left brain..... this is my opinión and could be wrong but has worked for me very well..... Take Care Bob
THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Dec 12 2014 at 16:46
465 posts
'leave this creative skills for those geeks from MIT, Harvard, etc that spend their lives creating indicators, ichimoku clouds and stuff like that....'

Oh, ahem... I am afraid that is me.😳
In fact if you really wanted to know me look up INTJ on the internet, its a personality type and do they have me pegged.
Bob
where research touches lives.
MOMAFOREX (FERMONZOR)
Dec 12 2014 at 17:48
135 posts
ForexAssistant posted:
'leave this creative skills for those geeks from MIT, Harvard, etc that spend their lives creating indicators, ichimoku clouds and stuff like that....'

Oh, ahem... I am afraid that is me.😳
In fact if you really wanted to know me look up INTJ on the internet, its a personality type and do they have me pegged.
Bob

Bob!!! so you are in that 2% of the population!! !😲 today I learned something new hehe!

INTJ personality

It's lonely at the top, and being one of the rarest and most strategically capable personality types, INTJs know this all too well. INTJs form just two percent of the population, and women of this personality type are especially rare, forming just 0.8% of the population - it is often a challenge for them to find like-minded individuals who are able to keep up with their relentless intellectualism and chess-like maneuvering. People with the INTJ personality type are imaginative yet decisive, ambitious yet private, amazingly curious, but they do not squander their energy.


THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT.
Chikot
Dec 12 2014 at 21:45
2299 posts
expert2trade posted:
togr posted:
Chikot posted:
I would not trust EA. It cannot adjust and market is not that perfect not to mention going through various cycles. Experienced trader with self control will do better than any EA especially on risk control side...
Also, how can I trust EA if I cannot trust even my internet connections...
The less things one has to rely upon the better.
KISS....

Well can you prove it? Can you post some manual trader who is successful in long term?
As trader with self control you should follow some clear trading rules.
If you have such rules EA can always execute them faster and more precisely.

well I am a manual trader, I use no EA...you can check my track here - https://www.myfxbook.com/members/expert2trade/awesomeprofits/1072944

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