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Forex is profitable ?

ComebackKing
May 13 2018 at 08:00
37 posts
I've no idea why anyone would bother scalping FX. Why not just trade currency futures on the CME? 100% transparent and no real 'spread' like FX or stocks.

Sky44
May 13 2018 at 08:23
9 posts
Even with low spreads am now sure that scalping works long term. I've never seen a profitable scalper account

SCR Traders (Pikasso)
May 14 2018 at 06:29
170 posts
ComebackKing posted:
I've no idea why anyone would bother scalping FX. Why not just trade currency futures on the CME? 100% transparent and no real 'spread' like FX or stocks.


Why not? many trade CME, but they choose another places to share expirience and demonstrate their results. Here is mostly forex spot.

Trading system developers and strategy providers.
maria_taylor
May 14 2018 at 06:48
40 posts
Definitely Forex is profitable but not for everyone. some traders have made millions from Forex as well some have lost millions. All you need for profitable trades is in depth knowledge of Forex, good experience and of-course you have be patient enough.

ComebackKing
May 14 2018 at 13:47
37 posts
Pikasso posted:
ComebackKing posted:
I've no idea why anyone would bother scalping FX. Why not just trade currency futures on the CME? 100% transparent and no real 'spread' like FX or stocks.


Why not? many trade CME, but they choose another places to share expirience and demonstrate their results. Here is mostly forex spot.


I said why not, because of the spreads. If you are scalping, why give yourself such a disadvantage from the start? I 100% understand FX as a longer term trade but anything intraday IMO is better on the futures market - simply because of the spreads.

As far as making money in any market trading, most fail. FX isn't a bad place to learn because you can trade mini and micro lots and not lose a lot of money for your tuition while you are learning. There's never a guarantee that you will ever make money, no matter how much time and effort you put in. You should be willing to invest a decade of your time and effort because it might take that long.

vontogr (togr)
May 15 2018 at 11:47
4862 posts
ComebackKing posted:
I've no idea why anyone would bother scalping FX. Why not just trade currency futures on the CME? 100% transparent and no real 'spread' like FX or stocks.


I am not familiar with currency futures on the CME
What are the costs trading there?

Straycat
May 15 2018 at 11:50
12 posts
I've been trading for years and have only recently started to be consistent (non scalping though). Stay away from big spread brokers they will just steal your money

ComebackKing
May 15 2018 at 14:03
37 posts
togr posted:
ComebackKing posted:
I've no idea why anyone would bother scalping FX. Why not just trade currency futures on the CME? 100% transparent and no real 'spread' like FX or stocks.


I am not familiar with currency futures on the CME
What are the costs trading there?


Should be between $4 and $5 per contract. Most discount brokers will charge $.50 or less per contract, the rest of the cost are CME exchange fees that cannot be avoided. There are no mini or micro lots so that's definitely a disadvantage. Tick increments and values differ by currency so you'd need to do some research there.

I will say that FX is very forgiving for newer traders, you can still trade real money but also have a small investment so that when you lose - and you 100% will lose when you're learning, you won't lose a ton. There's no such environment with futures. There's still a ton of leverage of the mini/micro contracts on CME have no real liquidity so you're left trading the full size contract. This will get expensive in a hurry if you've not honed your craft. There are probably some platforms where you can trade demo accounts for as long as necessary for little to no cost but that's beyond my experience.

vontogr (togr)
May 15 2018 at 14:20
4862 posts
ComebackKing posted:
togr posted:
ComebackKing posted:
I've no idea why anyone would bother scalping FX. Why not just trade currency futures on the CME? 100% transparent and no real 'spread' like FX or stocks.


I am not familiar with currency futures on the CME
What are the costs trading there?


Should be between $4 and $5 per contract. Most discount brokers will charge $.50 or less per contract, the rest of the cost are CME exchange fees that cannot be avoided. There are no mini or micro lots so that's definitely a disadvantage. Tick increments and values differ by currency so you'd need to do some research there.

I will say that FX is very forgiving for newer traders, you can still trade real money but also have a small investment so that when you lose - and you 100% will lose when you're learning, you won't lose a ton. There's no such environment with futures. There's still a ton of leverage of the mini/micro contracts on CME have no real liquidity so you're left trading the full size contract. This will get expensive in a hurry if you've not honed your craft. There are probably some platforms where you can trade demo accounts for as long as necessary for little to no cost but that's beyond my experience.

For $5 you can buy sell 100,000 EURUSD with good forex broker. And with high leverage. So i do not quite see the advantage of futures contract.

ComebackKing
May 15 2018 at 14:41
37 posts
My point is that scalping is better done with currency futures. For the record, I don't scalp currencies at all. I do trade the ES but I'm also not scalping that and I only started to dabble in FX since I'm consistent with my ES trading.

I've stated my opinion and the reasons behind it. If I were to scalp or even trade currencies intraday I'd do so via futures on the CME, but I'm familiar with that exchange and the markets there. I don't like broker spreads, they are arbitrary and you're instantly losing money as soon as you enter a trade. That's not the case with futures (not counting commissions). I do chat with a professional FX trader quite often and he shares my opinion; actually he had that opinion before me :-) Regarding commissions, with the leverage in futures and dollars per tick, they end up being a very minor cost. If you're trading the Yen then 1 tick will cover the cost of your commissions. I trade the ES and 1 tick is worth $12.50, so even if I close a trade for a 1 tick profit, which is basically a scratch, I'm still making money. The opening move in the ES this morning was 50 ticks to give you a little context. Futures trading can get expensive very, very quickly if you're on the wrong side of the market - that's a big benefit of FX - you can be wrong and not lose a ton of money if you're trading micro lots.

In the end it does not matter to me if someone scalps FX or futures or whatever else, there's nothing in it for me either way. I do think that one owes it to one's self to at least explore all available options, even try them out to see what best fits. I've traded stocks, options, crude oil, gold and corn before I finally decided on S&P index futures. To me it's like going to college, you should take a few courses and see if something fits you.

vontogr (togr)
May 16 2018 at 06:00
4862 posts
ComebackKing posted:
My point is that scalping is better done with currency futures. For the record, I don't scalp currencies at all. I do trade the ES but I'm also not scalping that and I only started to dabble in FX since I'm consistent with my ES trading.

I've stated my opinion and the reasons behind it. If I were to scalp or even trade currencies intraday I'd do so via futures on the CME, but I'm familiar with that exchange and the markets there. I don't like broker spreads, they are arbitrary and you're instantly losing money as soon as you enter a trade. That's not the case with futures (not counting commissions). I do chat with a professional FX trader quite often and he shares my opinion; actually he had that opinion before me :-) Regarding commissions, with the leverage in futures and dollars per tick, they end up being a very minor cost. If you're trading the Yen then 1 tick will cover the cost of your commissions. I trade the ES and 1 tick is worth $12.50, so even if I close a trade for a 1 tick profit, which is basically a scratch, I'm still making money. The opening move in the ES this morning was 50 ticks to give you a little context. Futures trading can get expensive very, very quickly if you're on the wrong side of the market - that's a big benefit of FX - you can be wrong and not lose a ton of money if you're trading micro lots.

In the end it does not matter to me if someone scalps FX or futures or whatever else, there's nothing in it for me either way. I do think that one owes it to one's self to at least explore all available options, even try them out to see what best fits. I've traded stocks, options, crude oil, gold and corn before I finally decided on S&P index futures. To me it's like going to college, you should take a few courses and see if something fits you.


No offense as I wrote I do not trade futures.
But IMHO whenever you open trade you are in minus as you have to pay trading cost be it omission or spread.
... don't like broker spreads, they are arbitrary and you're instantly losing money as soon as you enter a trade. That's not the case with futures (not counting commissions). ..
So at the end what is the difference?

krayziejohnny
May 16 2018 at 06:28
2 posts
how do you trade futures with no spread? broker name, etc? whats CME AND ES stand for? very curious right now


thanks!

ComebackKing
May 16 2018 at 13:37
37 posts
krayziejohnny posted:
how do you trade futures with no spread? broker name, etc? whats CME AND ES stand for? very curious right now


thanks!


Apex, Optimus and AMP are brokers I am familiar with but there are hundreds out there, just like FX brokers. You would have to do research and decide from there, I cannot explain all of the in's and out's here.

togr does make a valid point in that with FX there is a spread and that is your cost whereas with futures there is commission and that is your cost so in either case your entering into a minus sum game and there's no getting around that. The CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) is a regulated exchange and operates with a level of transparency that's not available in FX, just given the nature of FX. This is why trading volume is meaningless in FX as any volume information will just be from your broker. In futures, contract volume has actual meaning as this is THE marketplace for all transactions. No dark pools or off exchange transactions. There are iceberg orders and things of that nature but all volume comes through the same portal. The price ladder or order book shows all resting orders at each given price level for everyone trading the given market. You're just not going to see that with FX.

Mind you, I'm only talking about scalping here. If you're intent is to enter a trade and hold it for 6 months, futures may not be the best vehicle as futures contracts expire so you'd be dealing with that. But for scalping, which to me is high frequency trading for single digit pips, there's just no question that futures is the better option. But you'd have to really explore both and make that decision.

Hopefully this helps a little.

krayziejohnny
May 17 2018 at 05:52
2 posts
ComebackKing posted:
krayziejohnny posted:
how do you trade futures with no spread? broker name, etc? whats CME AND ES stand for? very curious right now


thanks!


Apex, Optimus and AMP are brokers I am familiar with but there are hundreds out there, just like FX brokers. You would have to do research and decide from there, I cannot explain all of the in's and out's here.

togr does make a valid point in that with FX there is a spread and that is your cost whereas with futures there is commission and that is your cost so in either case your entering into a minus sum game and there's no getting around that. The CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) is a regulated exchange and operates with a level of transparency that's not available in FX, just given the nature of FX. This is why trading volume is meaningless in FX as any volume information will just be from your broker. In futures, contract volume has actual meaning as this is THE marketplace for all transactions. No dark pools or off exchange transactions. There are iceberg orders and things of that nature but all volume comes through the same portal. The price ladder or order book shows all resting orders at each given price level for everyone trading the given market. You're just not going to see that with FX.

Mind you, I'm only talking about scalping here. If you're intent is to enter a trade and hold it for 6 months, futures may not be the best vehicle as futures contracts expire so you'd be dealing with that. But for scalping, which to me is high frequency trading for single digit pips, there's just no question that futures is the better option. But you'd have to really explore both and make that decision.

Hopefully this helps a little.


Really appreciate your reply! Opened my eyes to whole new world.

Will be doing my own research on futures.

Mohammadi
May 18 2018 at 10:40
886 posts
Even though so many traders always emphasis on acquiring good trading knowledge but I don’t. Because, according to me despite of having most powerful analyzing trade knowledge that’s not possible at all to lead a healthy trading life with certainly, as a result the broker can affects the result of our trading with certainly. So when choosing a broker we have to be more careful.

vontogr (togr)
May 18 2018 at 12:19
4862 posts
ComebackKing posted:
krayziejohnny posted:
how do you trade futures with no spread? broker name, etc? whats CME AND ES stand for? very curious right now


thanks!


Apex, Optimus and AMP are brokers I am familiar with but there are hundreds out there, just like FX brokers. You would have to do research and decide from there, I cannot explain all of the in's and out's here.

togr does make a valid point in that with FX there is a spread and that is your cost whereas with futures there is commission and that is your cost so in either case your entering into a minus sum game and there's no getting around that. The CME (Chicago Mercantile Exchange) is a regulated exchange and operates with a level of transparency that's not available in FX, just given the nature of FX. This is why trading volume is meaningless in FX as any volume information will just be from your broker. In futures, contract volume has actual meaning as this is THE marketplace for all transactions. No dark pools or off exchange transactions. There are iceberg orders and things of that nature but all volume comes through the same portal. The price ladder or order book shows all resting orders at each given price level for everyone trading the given market. You're just not going to see that with FX.

Mind you, I'm only talking about scalping here. If you're intent is to enter a trade and hold it for 6 months, futures may not be the best vehicle as futures contracts expire so you'd be dealing with that. But for scalping, which to me is high frequency trading for single digit pips, there's just no question that futures is the better option. But you'd have to really explore both and make that decision.

Hopefully this helps a little.


that could be easily bypassed by using ctrader which truly works as ECN by its nature

Matt (BluePanther)
May 20 2018 at 10:22
1355 posts

Mark Shawzin:

'Out of the 241 trades, 16 of them were responsible for ALL of the profit.
Most people in this world can't handle it. Yet, it is the only way I have ever seen anyone make money trading. Ever.
I was on Wall Street for 23 years. All of the successful fund managers will have long losing streaks, sometimes lasting 6 months to a year.
And then... boom! They let their winners run and they wipe out all of their losses.
It is how trading works.


https://thepatterntrader.com/the-pattern-trader-bundle-35/

AmDiab
May 21 2018 at 06:36
718 posts
Mohammadi posted:
Even though so many traders always emphasis on acquiring good trading knowledge but I don’t. Because, according to me despite of having most powerful analyzing trade knowledge that’s not possible at all to lead a healthy trading life with certainly, as a result the broker can affects the result of our trading with certainly. So when choosing a broker we have to be more careful.


So, according to you, if anyone has a good broker but no good trading strategy, he will be a successful trader, isn’t? Can you please explain more?

Russ
LongTerm32
May 21 2018 at 07:11
18 posts
Admoni posted:
At present Forex is definitely a profitable business. The first thing as a newcomer you need to do is learn everything you can about the market . then before you get a real account , get a demo account and practice as much as you can so you will get a better idea about the market. You probably should use the demo account for months. However , if you feel like you are ready , then by all means open up a real account.


The title if this thread is wrong. Forex is not profitable. It is up to the individual trader as to whether they are profitable. The title should be 'Are Forex Traders Profitable?'

Mohammadi
May 25 2018 at 11:03
886 posts
Every faction in this volatile trading place contains huge risk and no one can avoid it in spite having good trading knowledge and experience. But if you have proper trading discipline of course it is possible to reduce risk and greed.

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