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Hyperactivity

forex_trader_[107338]
May 12 2014 at 06:32
22 posts
Hi,

Excuse me for the PM.

I saw your post in the IC markets thread regarding Hyperactivity.

This limit of 2000 messages, is that in the 'Journal' section of the MT4 platform?

I wonder because I have my fxbook update set to update every 5 minutes.
vontogr (togr)
May 12 2014 at 08:54
4862 posts
Hi,

I guess it is number of order modification.
So trade opening, SL,TP changing etc.

The limit is about 7,000/day - at least that was msg from my broker.

Some brokers will block your account when you are over limit without notifying you.

Some do notify you upfront

Some do not limit you at all...
Adrian Matusiak (adrian8891)
May 12 2014 at 09:38
696 posts
Damn brokers! :)
PAMM MANAGER // Professional Fund Manager
forex_trader_[107338]
May 12 2014 at 09:54
22 posts
Ok thanks.

That's something else I need to be aware of.
Adrian Matusiak (adrian8891)
Jun 16 2014 at 08:51
696 posts
It is very unfair that brokers doesn't allow hiperactivity.
PAMM MANAGER // Professional Fund Manager
Steve B (stevetrade)
Jun 17 2014 at 16:07
1415 posts
Every order request requires bandwidth at their end, if they don't limit it then they can't guarantee performance for the traders that don't require hyperactivity.
Best regards Steve
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 17 2014 at 22:49
724 posts
Steve,

The HFT's send about 1000 trade per second. So not only is it technically possible, it's a quite common practice in fact. And the HFT's are active in the forex market, I assure you.

Only some fxbrokers, iow's the bucket shops, will restrict your volumes.
vontogr (togr)
Jun 18 2014 at 07:10
4862 posts
TheCyclist posted:
Steve,

The HFT's send about 1000 trade per second. So not only is it technically possible, it's a quite common practice in fact. And the HFT's are active in the forex market, I assure you.

Only some fxbrokers, iow's the bucket shops, will restrict your volumes.

@TheCyclist

are you sure MT4 can open
...1000 trade per second...

In Journal I see that closing multiple positions could take tens or seconds.
tigpips
Jun 18 2014 at 07:46
186 posts
1000 market orders on mt4? doubt so, maybe mt5.
http://www.freeforexrebates .info
vontogr (togr)
Jun 18 2014 at 07:50
4862 posts
tigpips posted:
1000 market orders on mt4? doubt so, maybe mt5.

well the message about hyperactivity came from mt4
Adrian Matusiak (adrian8891)
Jun 18 2014 at 08:05
696 posts
That's not possible to open 1000+ trades at second. Even best VPS providers with cross-connection advertise (what may not be 100% sure) that they have 2ms execution speed.

So,
1sec = 1000ms
That gives at most 500 trades that I'm sure You will never get.
PAMM MANAGER // Professional Fund Manager
vontogr (togr)
Jun 18 2014 at 08:13
4862 posts
adrian8891 posted:
That's not possible to open 1000+ trades at second. Even best VPS providers with cross-connection advertise (what may not be 100% sure) that they have 2ms execution speed.

So,
1sec = 1000ms
That gives at most 500 trades that I'm sure You will never get.

@adrian8891
It is even worse.
2ms you stated is just ping from your VPS to Broker server.
But trade needs to be executed which can take 250-1000ms.
There is a great MT4 tool - put it on your mt4 and you will see how much time is needed to just modify existing trade.
 

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Steve B (stevetrade)
Jun 18 2014 at 08:46
1415 posts
TheCyclist posted:
Steve,

The HFT's send about 1000 trade per second. So not only is it technically possible, it's a quite common practice in fact. And the HFT's are active in the forex market, I assure you.

Only some fxbrokers, iow's the bucket shops, will restrict your volumes.

I was simply commenting on why some brokers restrict client bandwidth, it's perfectly legitimate in my opinion. They don't all have bottomless pits of money to spend on infrastructure. Providing they make you aware of the circumstances you are trading under then I don't see the issue.

And look at it this way. The more a broker has to spend on infrastructure to support their business, the more money they have to skim off clients somewhere.

Best regards Steve
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 18 2014 at 09:25
724 posts
MT is a toy.

Of course you can't do it on MT. You need C++ and most likely FIX.

It requires things like microwave connections, inline functions and memory pointers. Special hardware etc...

Point is there is a case for very high volumes in FX. On 30 pairs you get about 25 000 to 40 000 ticks per pair per day, that's 1 000 000 value changes.

Make a 1 cent one...on a $10k account. Pharkers won't let me trade like that, MT is to slow and Oanda has volume restrictions, or I'd be sending them 1 million 1 unit trades a day.

To trade like that you need really big account and go straight interbank.
vontogr (togr)
Jun 18 2014 at 10:20
4862 posts
TheCyclist posted:
MT is a toy.

Of course you can't do it on MT. You need C++ and most likely FIX.

It requires things like microwave connections, inline functions and memory pointers. Special hardware etc...

Point is there is a case for very high volumes in FX. On 30 pairs you get about 25 000 to 40 000 ticks per pair per day, that's 1 000 000 value changes.

Make a 1 cent one...on a $10k account. Pharkers won't let me trade like that, MT is to slow and Oanda has volume restrictions, or I'd be sending them 1 million 1 unit trades a day.

To trade like that you need really big account and go straight interbank.

amazing but not related to hyperactivity
BTW is it worth it? I mean special devices, big account etc..
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 19 2014 at 00:38
724 posts
Totally

It's worth hundreds of millions a year. HFT is big business.

What they do, and it's very likely to get stopped soon, is take advantage of time delays in old infrastructure. Orders always arrived at the BATS exchange first, but it takes a bit longer to get to NYSE or Nasdaq because of physical location.

These guys would then have a super optimized system to get to the rest of the exchanges first. So they would see what the order is on BATS, the order gets split, sent to other exchanges where the HFT guy already bought at the price the order was for if anything was available.

So there might have been 35 shares, he buys them and knows the order is coming and he knows how much the buyer will pay for stock. So he sells them again in the same millisecond. Of course as HFT started spreading it turned into a speed war...

Some of these companies pay $100 000 000 a year for orders to come thought them first.

IEX's Brad Katsuyama has a book out on it. He created the IEX exchange specifically to solve the problem.

As for the relation to hyperactivity, that definitely falls into the category of hyperactivity. Trying to do high volumes on platforms not designed for it. Doesn't mean it can't be done in fx, but MT is a toy as I said. Just doesn't have the speed.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 19 2014 at 01:00
724 posts
@adrian8891

What do you think Oanda does ? They handle far more than 1000 orders per second. Besides, these kind of guys typically put their servers in the same buildings as the exchanges. So there is no internet or VPS, just a cable from one computer to another.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 19 2014 at 01:16
724 posts
Speed is a big issue for me. I find it very frustrating that I can't trade the way I want to in fx. O's API was quite fast, but they won't let me do volumes and they've written in a delay between closing different pairs.

I like to trade relationships, so I use to be able to get a target and close a position of say 30 trades before the next tick comes in, but now it takes 30 seconds. MT is just as slow, so that method of trading is out.
Professor53
Jun 19 2014 at 01:33
795 posts
I swear thats what the Brokers did to MDP EA. I have the best servers and was doing so well and MDP got big and popular and then it seems the brokers added a delay to stop the MDP EA from working well. I dont trade any EA that requires a speed faster than 100ms. Its just not possible over the long haul. I have been there , done that and set my vps servers for it.
Click on my Name to see My Live Charts and Bio.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 19 2014 at 01:55
724 posts
I've given up, I trade every hour or so, the delays just doesn't matter then...
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