Pipable :: Menkent Discussion

Silverthorn posted:

pipable posted:

Silverthorn posted:
I find this interesting but when you are calculating profitability don't forget to include your subscription fee in your calculations.

Thanks for your comment.

We have, we considered our fee to be 25-33% of the profit.

Does that sound like a good figure to you?

April

Initially looking at the numbers to date No. But eventually it all comes down to the numbers and unfortunately there is not enough data in to make an astute judgment yet.

Either good or bad.

The fact is that there is about 1/3 less profit in the system than most will be calculating due to the subscription fees.

Please understand I have no problem with high risk EAs and use them almost exclusively. I understand and use a method of money management that is very similar to what you are promoting where the whole account is placed at risk and the MC is considered the stop. No problem with that either. But unless the EA is able to make sufficient income to extract the initial capital and operating costs plus profits prior to draw down then it will not be profitable. The subscription is another overhead like spread that has to be factored into each trade before it becomes truly profitable.

So while your account here shows you as being about 100% in profit you are actually only about 65% in profit when subscription cost is factored in.

Still VERY sceptical but not with the EA. I may yet become a customer in the future but I am not a fan of releasing account details, Credit Card details or the levels of the subscription fees that I am seeing when compared to the required risk.

 

We will try to release a version that is usable on client account.

Jarora posted:
You do backtest from 2008 to 2014?

not sure what you exactly would like to see. All profit?
I will let you be the judge...is that even possible?
or may be you want us to fake the backtests and feed people with wrong data?

Please clarify...

April

interesting...

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:
You do backtest from 2008 to 2014?

not sure what you exactly would like to see. All profit?
I will let you be the judge...is that even possible?
or may be you want us to fake the backtests and feed people with wrong data?

Please clarify...

April

Absolutely agree. BEST ANSWER!!!

I can curve fit anything to fit any pair to make you a paper millionaire in less than a year but it will crash on a live account.

STOP ASKING FOR BACK TESTS.

They are a total fairy tail particularly for this kind of EA. Watch, wait, observe. The forward tests will help you make an informed decision. Back tests will lead you up the garden path.

A backtest proves its at least worthy of trading live over an extended time, very rarely will a bot not trade good in backtest but trade good live...

So a backtest is a very useful tool if used properly...

sirius1fx posted:
A backtest proves its at least worthy of trading live over an extended time, very rarely will a bot not trade good in backtest but trade good live...

So a backtest is a very useful tool if used properly...

It is useful, but @Jarora is expecting all the backtests be positive/positive/positive.

I explained for him his expectations are simply non-achievable. One should be faking the backtests in order to achieve what he wanted.

sirius1fx posted:
A backtest proves its at least worthy of trading live over an extended time, very rarely will a bot not trade good in backtest but trade good live...

So a backtest is a very useful tool if used properly...

By a huge margin it is far more common for a bot to trades well in vendor provided back test but crashe live. A vendor supplied back test shows NOTHING!!

Do you think a vendor is going to show a back test that has a less than positive outcome? Absolutely not. They will tweak and trim until it shows the numbers you want to see.

It's refreshing to see a vendor say that they can give you what you want but it would be fake and unrealistic. Heats off to Pipable for that.

If you want a back test to mean anything to you on your account you need to run it. As I said. Show me ANY rubbish EA and I can optimise the daylights out of it and tweak it until it gives a rocket ship ride to riches on paper. But live it will loose all your money in the first month.

Back tests and forward tests are essential but only really valid for you if they are run by you under your account conditions.

Bottom line: Backtesting is just for developers, and to fine-tune settings, never for making decisions on the profitability of a robot!

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:
You do backtest from 2008 to 2014?

not sure what you exactly would like to see. All profit?
I will let you be the judge...is that even possible?
or may be you want us to fake the backtests and feed people with wrong data?

Please clarify...

April

I don't know why on my question backtest you answer twice! Best if you use the 99.90% backtest and not 90%. You still have not responded to my question: Is it Menkent EA or EA which receives the entry points from your server?

Silverthorn posted:
Bottom line: Backtesting is just for developers, and to fine-tune settings, never for making decisions on the profitability of a robot!

For a good setting 99.90% backtest (not 90%) you know will assess whether will EA profitable or not.

Silverthorn posted:

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:
You do backtest from 2008 to 2014?

not sure what you exactly would like to see. All profit?
I will let you be the judge...is that even possible?
or may be you want us to fake the backtests and feed people with wrong data?

Please clarify...

April

Absolutely agree. BEST ANSWER!!!

I can curve fit anything to fit any pair to make you a paper millionaire in less than a year but it will crash on a live account.

STOP ASKING FOR BACK TESTS.

They are a total fairy tail particularly for this kind of EA. Watch, wait, observe. The forward tests will help you make an informed decision. Back tests will lead you up the garden path.

gracias :)

Silverthorn posted:

sirius1fx posted:
A backtest proves its at least worthy of trading live over an extended time, very rarely will a bot not trade good in backtest but trade good live...

So a backtest is a very useful tool if used properly...

By a huge margin it is far more common for a bot to trades well in vendor provided back test but crashe live. A vendor supplied back test shows NOTHING!!

Do you think a vendor is going to show a back test that has a less than positive outcome? Absolutely not. They will tweak and trim until it shows the numbers you want to see.

It's refreshing to see a vendor say that they can give you what you want but it would be fake and unrealistic. Heats off to Pipable for that.

If you want a back test to mean anything to you on your account you need to run it. As I said. Show me ANY rubbish EA and I can optimise the daylights out of it and tweak it until it gives a rocket ship ride to riches on paper. But live it will loose all your money in the first month.

Back tests and forward tests are essential but only really valid for you if they are run by you under your account conditions.

thanks you.

@Jarora can you please show us one vendor who is showing the real results (which of course has to have negative results in there as well as positive)?

Alright guys, lets face it. The online forex Market is full of scams.

Now what is pipable trying to do: being transparent and honest no matter what. We could have sold for an upfornt fee of $300 and made alot more money that we have right now. Did we? NO. Why? because we are looking at it as a long term business and in a long term business the only way to succeed is to be honest.

Is it possible for menkent to hit a SL. ABSOLUTELY. It is possible for any EA. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a lier.

So what is the solution? Right money and risk management. Is that what pipable offers? ABSOLUTELY.

sirius1fx posted:
A backtest proves its at least worthy of trading live over an extended time, very rarely will a bot not trade good in backtest but trade good live...

So a backtest is a very useful tool if used properly...

that is correct.

Jarora posted:

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:
You do backtest from 2008 to 2014?

not sure what you exactly would like to see. All profit?
I will let you be the judge...is that even possible?
or may be you want us to fake the backtests and feed people with wrong data?

Please clarify...

April

I don't know why on my question backtest you answer twice! Best if you use the 99.90% backtest and not 90%. You still have not responded to my question: Is it Menkent EA or EA which receives the entry points from your server?

Your answer: Yes menkent uses external news feeds which are automated.

Now you have not answered my questions: With the ideals you are talking about, can you show us one vendor/EA/service that qualifies with those ideals? Are they just what you are hoping to see at some point or do they actually exit in real life? ;-)

Jarora posted:

Silverthorn posted:
Bottom line: Backtesting is just for developers, and to fine-tune settings, never for making decisions on the profitability of a robot!

For a good setting 99.90% backtest (not 90%) you know will assess whether will EA profitable or not.

seems like you have lost the big picture. lets say we offer 99% instead of 90% which I can tell you right now....It would make no difference.

What about the price differences received from one broker to another?!?! how are you gonna tackle that? Do you know that same EA could act differently on different brokers or are you denying that as well?

David :)

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:
You do backtest from 2008 to 2014?

not sure what you exactly would like to see. All profit?
I will let you be the judge...is that even possible?
or may be you want us to fake the backtests and feed people with wrong data?

Please clarify...

April

I don't know why on my question backtest you answer twice! Best if you use the 99.90% backtest and not 90%. You still have not responded to my question: Is it Menkent EA or EA which receives the entry points from your server?

Your answer: Yes menkent uses external news feeds which are automated.

Now you have not answered my questions: With the ideals you are talking about, can you show us one vendor/EA/service that qualifies with those ideals? Are they just what you are hoping to see at some point or do they actually exit in real life? ;-)

So you confirm that go about EA (trade signal) where traded your trader manually?

I am not aware that wrote in the discussion about show one vendor/EA/service. Why do you lie?

Jarora posted:

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:

pipable posted:

Jarora posted:
You do backtest from 2008 to 2014?

not sure what you exactly would like to see. All profit?
I will let you be the judge...is that even possible?
or may be you want us to fake the backtests and feed people with wrong data?

Please clarify...

April

I don't know why on my question backtest you answer twice! Best if you use the 99.90% backtest and not 90%. You still have not responded to my question: Is it Menkent EA or EA which receives the entry points from your server?

Your answer: Yes menkent uses external news feeds which are automated.

Now you have not answered my questions: With the ideals you are talking about, can you show us one vendor/EA/service that qualifies with those ideals? Are they just what you are hoping to see at some point or do they actually exit in real life? ;-)

So you confirm that go about EA (trade signal) where traded your trader manually?

I am not aware that wrote in the discussion about show one vendor/EA/service. Why do you lie?

1: No, like I have mentioned before. the EA uses news timing feed to turn on/off.

2: Your second sentence grammatically doesn't make any sense. please write in plain English so that I can understand what you are trying to say.

3: I have asked you several times to show us a service that meets all your expectations and to this point...nothing. Do you have anything to show or are you just in business are wasting people's time?! ;-)

David

pipable posted:

We will try to release a version that is usable on client account.

As soon as you do I'm on board.

'3: I have asked you several times to show us a service that meets all your expectations' ???

May I ask what those expectations were that you referred to?

Bob