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NEW skool trading or OLD skool trading

Dec 08 2009 at 01:45
23 posts

Conclusion2: It is not because you see some manual traders out there that are really doing good that they saw the holy light. Manual trading is an iron bol chained around your leg for the rest of your life or better as long as you are manual trading.
If you want to do it good you never are at ease or in a resting period. You need to always keep contact with the markets. You need to have the markets streaming through your blood. And most important if you drop one moment that most important factor DISCIPLINE it can kill you.
It happend to me. I am not a professional trader for 14 years. The evening of the 23th of Feb. 2001 I lost everything I had in my life. I had made a lot of money through trading because of avereging out all the time. That day price did not come back and continued the wrong way. My broker phoned me and said: Sorry igor but all your accounts are closed and I even did everything possible to keep them open for a bit longer.

Dec 08 2009 at 01:46
23 posts
Part 4

I looked to my screen for 48H with glazy eyes in a zombie state of mind and was REALLY thinking of commiting suicide because I did not have a pot to piss in anymore (lost it ALL).
Lucky enough that my 2 children walked trough the door after those 48hours staring as a zombie to my trading platform and realised that they needed me.
Moral of the story: You can be very good for 5 years as a manual trader but it only needs 1 day to whipe you out completaly.
Same for the manual traders you see here. I did not check out their results but if you say that they do not use any stoplosses or have strange trading techniques like martingale or averaging out like I did then the question should not be ask how good are they but when are they going to fail completaly.
People talk about the 5% rule on traders being succesful. Believe me, trust me, it is only 1 on 1000traders that is succesfull.
Up till now I never saw a trading track record over more then 3 years manual trading. And that is normally the minimum to calculate a reliable 'sterling ratio' on your track record ( Total profit over 3 years devide by 3 to have the avg result per year devided by the biggest drawdown on your balance --open trades not closed trades-- over that 3 year period).

Dec 08 2009 at 01:47
23 posts
Part 5

About your slipage: Every broker has slipage. Slipage is a natural thing in trading. Many people don't understand what slipage means. Slipage is the difference in price between the TIME you RECEIVE the signal to take in an entry and the price you received on the TIME you TOOK the entry.
- If you trade a trend following system then more then 50% of the time you are going to have a worse price on your entry then on your signal.
- If you trigger a stoploss (market order) then more then 50% of the time you are going to have a worse price then your initial price you excpected.
- If you trade a contrair system then more then 50% of the time you are going to have an entry that is BETTER then the price on your signal.

Dec 08 2009 at 01:47
23 posts
Part 6

If you do backtests with Omega Trade station or Metastock professional or Amibroker you even have a box where you fill in your standard slipage per trade. Which is the write thing to do...filling in a standard slipage per trade, that way you are not going to get suprised. If a system apears not to perform so well with slipage then without slipage then that means that the system has not enough reserve or not robust enough.
Many many system look very nice on paper with a very small spread and no slipage. Once you backtest or even better trade them then suddenly it changes a winning system on paper into a losing system system with real money.
Best brokers: Dukascopy, ATCbrokers, BROCO (trader-fixed spread), Oanda.

Friendly regards... FXiGoR

Dec 08 2009 at 02:11
23 posts
How redicilous is this....even this posting I need to chop up it up in 2 parts....ppffffff.

Fulltime247 posted:
    ....Some systems can be reverse engineered by watching the open/pending orders. ......

Hi Fulltime247,

Reverse ingenering is a bit of to big word. I am a system develloper for nearly 14 years now and there is no way to duplicate a system with 100% certainty to know which specifiec indicators and parameters a system is using by looking to the entry time and price and exit time and price.
You probaly mean that if somebody could see you entrys and exits and has enough knowledge of trading and knows his arsenal of indicators that he could know more or less what system that you trade....
Yep, but if it is that obvious to recongize or reveal a system then you need to realize that there are millions of traders out there and that probably a lot of them are already trading more or less the same system you are trading.

Dec 08 2009 at 02:11
23 posts
Part 2

Or your system is a very simple system and then many people are doing the same thing as you do and then their is not point in hidding the entrys or exits (with millions of people who look to their charts also every day).
Or your system is absolutly unique and then you don't need to be afraid that somebody will know what you are doing.

My system is unique and does not use any indicator what so ever.... so I don't worry. And if somebody out there would have found the same logics I use then I know there is plenty of room out their to allow some more traders that had the same idea like me ;-)

Friendly regards... FXiGoR

Dec 08 2009 at 02:47
23 posts
Here we go again...2 redicilous is this...

newborn posted:
  ................I think its fair enough if I say I know there are other traders that also manage big account that do trend following trading with relatively small TP and large SL with reasonable SL placement, and equally successful as you are.

Other than that, I agree with your post and warning.

Hi Newborn,

What you say is a bit of a contradiction: .......Large SL.....reasonable SL placement.
If it is reasonable then it is not large.

To help you out a bit what the difference is between a S/L that is reasonable or large and succesful :

Many of the new school traders use very big S/L's and they are VERY succesful. Does that mean that they are right ?....
In trading there is a thing like reward versus risk. So can I ask you a question: Trading is trying to predict which direction the price is going to move. You have 2 posibilitys to do that. Or fundamental techniques (like news reports) OR with the help of technical analysis (such as patern recognition like support and resistance or indicators, finbonacci, EW etc).
If you take in a trade based on the conclusion that price is going to go a certain direction do you think that you can allow price going 10 x times more the wrong way then the direction that you predicted it would go ?....

Dec 08 2009 at 02:48
23 posts
Part 2

That is like me saying to you: I have a technique that can tell me what the colour is of your underwear. You say to me OK tell me. I say white. You say nope it is blue. I say yes OK but I am correct that you are wearing underware so that is not that wrong......
What are you going to say immedaitly to me ? : B*llshit... that has nothing to do with predicting what the colour is of my underwear.
Well that is the same way I think about the new school traders and people who use S/L's that have nothing to do with beeing a trader that is trying to predict the direction of price and who look to trading like some sort of a casino....

Friendly regards....FXiGoR

Dec 08 2009 at 14:17
397 posts
FxiGor, i love your posts!

thank you for sharing your experience.

Sleep is for the weak.
Dec 08 2009 at 17:57
27 posts
Most of the experienced traders don't have a huge account. They have 3-4-5 or even more accounts with average amounts.
So if you blow up one of them - the game is not over!

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