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kieran (snapdragon1970)
Oct 25 2015 at 14:54
1944 posts
How do I know if I'm a trader or a gambler?I ask myself these questions before I trade each day?

Are my winning trades larger than my Losing trades?
Do I keep open positions on losing trades even when I know I'm wrong?
Am I using a stop loss?
Am I chasing the market for every position?
Do I trade just before news releases?
How do I feel after a winning trade?over confident,confident or neutral.
Do I double up when I have lost?
Are my targets for profit to high?


Be lucky.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
Apip Saepudin (Apipfx)
Oct 26 2015 at 07:12
13 posts
You're a trader when you analyse before put an order in your trading, because a gambler can't do so and they're just only depending on their luck. You're a trader when you're not hesitate yourself while trading.

Michael Bai (michaelbai)
Oct 26 2015 at 07:19
33 posts
some gamblers also count cards to improve their chances or winning, so its not fair to say someone who analyzes before trading. They key is EDUCATED and VARIED analysis. The market is constantly changing, so why is it possible you can use the same singular method for analysis day in and day out?

Take Challenges Head On
CrazyTraderfx (CrazyTrader)
Oct 26 2015 at 07:47
1718 posts
The funny thing is everybody wanna be a trader... and so they try to stick professional rules thinking it is the only way to be successfull in trading.
You are a trader when you work in an hedge fund and manage Millions of dollars... else you are nothing.... just a 'wannabe trader' including myself.

It's not because i don't give a f... to the MM that we are been taught that I'm more a gambler than anyone else.

Refer to the last bet taken on EurUsd chart... A good gambler makes more pips than a consistent wannabe trader.

Refering to the all questions you mentionned... you do not talk about a gambler... You talk about addicted person that needs to me in a trade all time thinking if he is not, then he misses opportunities.

Michael Bai (michaelbai)
Oct 26 2015 at 11:30
33 posts
good points CrazyTrader. Again, count some cards, learn how the game works, get experience, win, loose, breakeven, etc. then you will wake up one day successful.

Take Challenges Head On
kieran (snapdragon1970)
Oct 26 2015 at 11:52
1944 posts
michaelbai posted:
some gamblers also count cards to improve their chances or winning, so its not fair to say someone who analyzes before trading. They key is EDUCATED and VARIED analysis. The market is constantly changing, so why is it possible you can use the same singular method for analysis day in and day out?


You have to have some kind of method otherwise how are you going to know what works and what doesn't ,educated yes but the same analysis day in day out,ask any city trader,they stick with one method that works over a long period,tried and tested,yes the market is constantly changing,they sit and wait for the time their method works.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
mennopet
Oct 26 2015 at 11:52
3 posts
Trading is always a form of gambling i think, thats not a negative thing.

When you are gambling in a casino, you walk in with $100 and decide to put 10 times $10 on red, you know before you start that you have more change of loosing that winning. In this particular game, the casino has always an edge over you. They created a system for that game that makes you loose over the long run. You can still win over 10 bets, you can even win over 1000 bets when you have some luck on your side. So in this case, even the casino is gambling. There power is that if they keep playing for long enough against enough bets from enough people, there outcome will become positive sooner or later.

When you take other games, like poker or blackjack (at the time card counting was still possible), there is no predefined edge for anyone. The outcome will be determined by the players and how they decide how and when they bet. That means that when you be able to have a clear look of the current game and the current players, and you are able to make decisions based on that situation that give you an edge over the decisions of your opponents, and you keep playing for long enough, at some point your results will be positive. Even in this situation you are still gambling because you can loose and loose, and you never know when you will become positive. You only created a game with the luck on your side.

This is stil the same with trading the forex markets these days.
This market is Break even, what means that where someone wins money, someone else have to loose that amount. Keep that in mind.
The benefits of this market is that it moves in clear patterns, actually the same patterns as it did for a long time. This makes it possible to have an idea how your opponents work, how they make decisions. Where they most likely go in and out. Whit this noledge you can create a system that takes advantage over them what gives you an edge over your opponents.

keep in mind that this will be most likely a relative small edge. Because of this even if you are a winning player, it will be a messy road to succes with a lot of losses on the road.
I think this is the main reason why so many people are still loosing in the long run.
Because of this small edge, you have to deal with periods that the markets keep going against you, again and again, while your still have an edge, and still doing well.
This pumps in so much emotion that people doing to doubt them self. They are likely going to think that they are doing not right in this loosing periods and start making decisions that will crush there edge, what makes them loose more and more. At this time even more emotions comes in, what makes them for example mess with there MM and try to win there money back with putting more at risk, what eventually blow al of it.

In the beginning of this journey the most important thing is to learn how the markets behave. You have to learn to recognise patterns, and learn how to deal with them. This can be done best on demo accounts, because you are still learning.
Then you need a set of rules that makes you sure that you will keep acting according the things you have learned. You can call it a strategy. This is really important because the only way to keep your emotions out and keeps you believe your doing right even in loosing periods, is knowing exactly what your doing time after time.
Than you have to become a master of the process, keep doing it over and over again and evaluate the situation again and again. With the time you will become better and will be able to see what situations within your strategy (set of rules), will be valide and wich are fals. This will makes your edge even bigger.
Stuck with what your doing and become a real master in it, this is not possible when your switching your rules or strategy every couple of months.

Set-up a solid money management plan that keeps you in the game and is solid enough for you to not let your emotions takes control in whatever situation.

There was also a reaction about taking your position out when you see you are loosing. It make sense but is also really dangerous i think. When do you know you are right or wrong? What makes you pull the trigger to get your position out?? Mostly this is based on moving data, and see that it looks like your loosing money at the moment.. This is something you can do, but only if you are really know what your doing. But?? is that not the main reason of the stop-loss?? set a price lvl what proves that you are wrong?

The whole point is, stuck with a predefined plan what cover's al the decisions you have to make, also the decisions that you have to make when your trade is open. Every situation that can play out (also while your trade is open) should be covered before you open the trade. And act to al these rules without hesitating, and never change the plan while after you made it.

Getting an edge of the markets is the simple part, stuck with it is the hard part ;)

In my opinion, the difference between a solid trader and a gambler is someone who can make over taught decisions based on a predefined plan what they know is working, and someone who makes there decisions based on how they feel.


Don't understand my wrong, this is only my look to it, and i'm also struggling with it. It will be a lifetime journey to walk the stairs step by step. But i notice that the more honest you can be to yourself and the more you be able not to blame anything for certain outcomes, the better results you will get.

(i'm sorry for this much to long text haha, i can keep typing about this subject for ever =p)
(and sorry if the english is not perfect, working on it ;)

kieran (snapdragon1970)
Oct 26 2015 at 11:52
1944 posts
Apipfx posted:
You're a trader when you analyse before put an order in your trading, because a gambler can't do so and they're just only depending on their luck. You're a trader when you're not hesitate yourself while trading.



We need some luck too plus what you said above.
Right place at the right time.


Be lucky.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
kieran (snapdragon1970)
Oct 26 2015 at 11:52
1944 posts
CrazyTrader posted:
The funny thing is everybody wanna be a trader... and so they try to stick professional rules thinking it is the only way to be successfull in trading.
You are a trader when you work in an hedge fund and manage Millions of dollars... else you are nothing.... just a 'wannabe trader' including myself.

It's not because i don't give a f... to the MM that we are been taught that I'm more a gambler than anyone else.

Refer to the last bet taken on EurUsd chart... A good gambler makes more pips than a consistent wannabe trader.

Refering to the all questions you mentionned... you do not talk about a gambler... You talk about addicted person that needs to me in a trade all time thinking if he is not, then he misses opportunities.



There's no such thing as a good Gambler.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
kieran (snapdragon1970)
Oct 26 2015 at 13:09
1944 posts
mennopet posted:
Trading is always a form of gambling i think, thats not a negative thing.

When you are gambling in a casino, you walk in with $100 and decide to put 10 times $10 on red, you know before you start that you have more change of loosing that winning. In this particular game, the casino has always an edge over you. They created a system for that game that makes you loose over the long run. You can still win over 10 bets, you can even win over 1000 bets when you have some luck on your side. So in this case, even the casino is gambling. There power is that if they keep playing for long enough against enough bets from enough people, there outcome will become positive sooner or later.

When you take other games, like poker or blackjack (at the time card counting was still possible), there is no predefined edge for anyone. The outcome will be determined by the players and how they decide how and when they bet. That means that when you be able to have a clear look of the current game and the current players, and you are able to make decisions based on that situation that give you an edge over the decisions of your opponents, and you keep playing for long enough, at some point your results will be positive. Even in this situation you are still gambling because you can loose and loose, and you never know when you will become positive. You only created a game with the luck on your side.


This is stil the same with trading the forex markets these days.
This market is Break even, what means that where someone wins money, someone else have to loose that amount. Keep that in mind.
The benefits of this market is that it moves in clear patterns, actually the same patterns as it did for a long time. This makes it possible to have an idea how your opponents work, how they make decisions. Where they most likely go in and out. Whit this noledge you can create a system that takes advantage over them what gives you an edge over your opponents.

keep in mind that this will be most likely a relative small edge. Because of this even if you are a winning player, it will be a messy road to succes with a lot of losses on the road.
I think this is the main reason why so many people are still loosing in the long run.
Because of this small edge, you have to deal with periods that the markets keep going against you, again and again, while your still have an edge, and still doing well.
This pumps in so much emotion that people doing to doubt them self. They are likely going to think that they are doing not right in this loosing periods and start making decisions that will crush there edge, what makes them loose more and more. At this time even more emotions comes in, what makes them for example mess with there MM and try to win there money back with putting more at risk, what eventually blow al of it.

In the beginning of this journey the most important thing is to learn how the markets behave. You have to learn to recognise patterns, and learn how to deal with them. This can be done best on demo accounts, because you are still learning.
Then you need a set of rules that makes you sure that you will keep acting according the things you have learned. You can call it a strategy. This is really important because the only way to keep your emotions out and keeps you believe your doing right even in loosing periods, is knowing exactly what your doing time after time.
Than you have to become a master of the process, keep doing it over and over again and evaluate the situation again and again. With the time you will become better and will be able to see what situations within your strategy (set of rules), will be valide and wich are fals. This will makes your edge even bigger.
Stuck with what your doing and become a real master in it, this is not possible when your switching your rules or strategy every couple of months.

Set-up a solid money management plan that keeps you in the game and is solid enough for you to not let your emotions takes control in whatever situation.

There was also a reaction about taking your position out when you see you are loosing. It make sense but is also really dangerous i think. When do you know you are right or wrong? What makes you pull the trigger to get your position out?? Mostly this is based on moving data, and see that it looks like your loosing money at the moment.. This is something you can do, but only if you are really know what your doing. But?? is that not the main reason of the stop-loss?? set a price lvl what proves that you are wrong?

The whole point is, stuck with a predefined plan what cover's al the decisions you have to make, also the decisions that you have to make when your trade is open. Every situation that can play out (also while your trade is open) should be covered before you open the trade. And act to al these rules without hesitating, and never change the plan while after you made it.

Getting an edge of the markets is the simple part, stuck with it is the hard part ;)

In my opinion, the difference between a solid trader and a gambler is someone who can make over taught decisions based on a predefined plan what they know is working, and someone who makes there decisions based on how they feel.


Don't understand my wrong, this is only my look to it, and i'm also struggling with it. It will be a lifetime journey to walk the stairs step by step. But i notice that the more honest you can be to yourself and the more you be able not to blame anything for certain outcomes, the better results you will get.

(i'm sorry for this much to long text haha, i can keep typing about this subject for ever =p)
(and sorry if the english is not perfect, working on it ;)


Not bad,Professional Traders do keep repeating the same process over and over on the same product day in day out,you have to ask yourself who are you getting an edge over,other Retail Traders or Professional Traders?what is my edge?
Another thing is can we say in one sentence what we are?If I meet you down the pub and ask you what you do,can you answer me ,im a scalper,a trend trader,gap player,etc..you can always get a good education and save yourself lots of time and money.


Be lucky.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
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