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Traders Give Birth to a New Idea, premier announcement

Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
May 23 2014 at 05:59
465 posts
Well my friend, I hope your wrong, because I also believe that if we don't do something to pull ourselves together, we will inevitably end up pulling ourselves apart. I would like to think that the millions of years of evolution taught us that we can change. Maybe we can quit killing each other, we won't know unless we try.

I don't know where I got this old saying but it seams to fit this situation pretty well, 'it's better to try and fail, than to fail to try and forever live with the wonder of what might have been'.

Now Gatornuke, I love you like a brother but it seems there may be a thread of insanity in the blood line. Are you nuts?
(Sie Loco) You really wrote, ' If it were up to me, Spanish would be the universal language. Grammar rules are much simpler and you know exactly how to pronounce a word from how it's written, and how to spell a word from how it's pronounced.'

Can you tell me how a chair is female and a car is masculine? I have called my cars sweetheart since I began driving, now I find out they are male! This does nothing for me? I think we need to go back to the emoticons.

Actually intentional languages are much easier to learn than natural or accidental languages are. I am learning Spanish and I can tell you it isn't easy. How many uses are there for the word 'para'. But if Spanish was chosen by the United nations to be the Universal language then I will learn it the best that I can.

It's not that I will ever see a world that all speaks a common language so they can talk directly with anyone else on the planet. But for the children, we do need to build a better place.

Bob

PS. do you know your English is so good I had no idea that it was a second language for you. Impressive.
 
where research touches lives.
vontogr (togr)
May 23 2014 at 07:39
4862 posts
ForexAssistant posted:
Ah Togr, my respects Sir.

You are one of the few that have been around longer than I have. With all of the bravado that goes on in these forums aside, there is no replacement for experience. After reading your posts for, what about 3 years? I still can't say that it seems like I know you, just that I wish it were possible.

Now the question, 'Which lng is it? Chinese or English? ;)'

That's the question that we will need to answer if our common language project fails. We would like to disassociate our communication abilities with politics. Ironman told me that some French speakers refuse to speak English, not sure why but there is too much negative emotion associated with any national language. By starting from scratch, we can make it easier to learn, more resilient against future identity problems, and more universal in pronunciation. But the big one that even traders all agree with, it limits emotions and that will strengthen communications all by itself.

When I get tired, and can't motivate myself to look up one more thing or post one more word, I visualize myself trying to learn Mandarin Chinese and all of a sudden I find my second wind. I can do this, a universal language is easy, Chinese is difficult.

Thanks for posting my friend, always happy to see you're still with us.

Bob

Hey my friend,

you know I am old skeptic:)

There were such tries to use world simplified language like Esperanto.

But in real world the languages supported by huge armies and lot of printed money like the US are winning
ZOOM
May 23 2014 at 16:36
39 posts
Frankly speaking, from my experience and from what people have told me, native English speakers find other languages relatively more difficult to learn than non-English speakers learning these languages, precisely because English is so wide-spread and spoken by many, previously thanks to the firepower of the British empire, and now the American dollar and the internet. So I find these comments by the non-native English speakers quite more interesting.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
May 25 2014 at 05:35
465 posts
To Togr first,
'There were such tries to use world simplified language like Esperanto.
But in real world the languages supported by huge armies and lot of printed money like the US are winning'

You make two points which are both true, I can't refute what has been but my argument is that we have several new situations that change the game. In 1850s they didn't have electricity much less the internet. We couldn't talk like we do now. Which means ideas couldn't go viral. And there wasn't a United Nations that really needs something like a Common language.

Honestly, I think once the UN finds that there is support for a common world language, they will take the ball and run with it. I just hope they include us in there somewhere. But on the second point, nature abhors a vacuum. Given that the UN has not yet established an 'Earthen Language', the default is the world market language which happens to be primarily English.

Now, as to Zoom's post, I too am interested in the opinions of non native English speakers but as a native English speaker I can tell you English is just god awful. In 62 years I still mess up which (there, they're, their) to use. And perfectly good words, like 'yat' has no meaning what so ever. If we had to use English as the world language, I would have to start a campaign to replace the common language with something more intelligent, maybe sign language.

On the bright side to using English, if we ever got invaded from outer-space, they would never break our communications code.

Bob
where research touches lives.
gatornuke
May 26 2014 at 00:22
32 posts
I've never used the wrong their/there/they're, and it baffles me when native speakers do it. I think the reason is that in Spanish these are completely different words that sound and are spelled nothing like each other. On the other hand, i often struggle with using 'on' vs. 'in'.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
May 27 2014 at 01:14
465 posts
'i often struggle with using 'on' vs. 'in'. '

Really, the different vowel sounds in Spanish throw me as well. How are you with (too, to, and two)?

Bob
where research touches lives.
gatornuke
Jun 05 2014 at 16:03
32 posts
I get (two, to, and too) correct all the time too. I think it has to do with the similarity of the words when you learn them at first when you're a kid. if they are very different concepts, and the original spelling and pronounciation are very different, when you learn another language's word for that concept you still carry the concept's uniqueness along with you, even though the new words might sound similar. Does that make sense?

For instance, these are very different concepts:
dos = two
a = to
tambien = too
de ellos = their
ahi =there
ellos son = they're

but for me this is the same concept:
en = on or in. I have to think about whether it's on top of or inside of, and even that doesn't always work; e.g. 'ON the first Monday IN July'
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 06 2014 at 12:06
724 posts
What a load of bullshit.

Obviously it's English. Secondly is math. I've never been in a country where a pen and pencil and simple math couldn't get a message across. People are people and a simple nod goes a long way to convey a message unless you're Indian and you do that funny head bob thing. No one really know what that means.

But then again it's hard to take someone who feels the need to shower with a 'penis protector' seriously. Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

It appears someone needs to get of his butt and get out a bit more often.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Jun 10 2014 at 18:22
465 posts
@gatornuke

Well, I'm convinced, both English and Spanish is a bad choice for a universal language. The language should be as pure as possible so everyone can feel good about accepting it. Let's face facts, English carriers with it some baggage that just is not needed in tomorrow's world.

English should be preserved as a local language for those that have adopted it. It adds to the ambiance of the culture but the whole Earth, starting with the United Nations , needs a separate language of it's own. The Earthen language along with the people as a whole needs its own group culture but that won't happen until their is first a united language.

One Planet, One People, with One Language.

Bob

PS. I am not ignoring the post from PipGnostic, I just can't understand what point he is trying to make or even what the item is that he referred to. I know what a shower is.
where research touches lives.
PipGnostic
TheCyclist
Jun 10 2014 at 23:15
724 posts
@ForexAssistant

You'd have to hit the showers with a bunch of Asians to understand that reference.

The point is people are people. They all want and need the same things. For the most part body language is the same, math is universal. Don't need to make up languages to communicate.

English has reached critical mass long time ago, it's like Bitcoin, here to stay and just going to get bigger...anyone that wants to communicate with the world needs to speak English and that's just going to get more true in the future.

In all my travels, and that's a lot of travels, I've always been able to get my message across.

And for the record, I'm not a native English speaker.
ZOOM
Jun 11 2014 at 06:53
39 posts
Bob, I have been reading your comments with somewhat of an interest in your ideas, although not subscribing to your idea. You might be right, you might not be right. Being inquisitive and questioning are traits of a good trader. I am among, probably, the majority of people here not convinced in your idea. By no mans to discourage you, but you need some more evidences, some more examples, some more other ideas as to how this new global language will make it better for the Earth or be used within the United Nations. Curious to hear more.
Steve B (stevetrade)
Jun 11 2014 at 15:59
1415 posts
While I applaud your sentiments Bob and share your views on some issues. Language will not change the problems facing the planet today. The world is becoming chronically starved of resources, whilst it's level of complexity increases. Systems of greater complexity require an increasingly large amount of energy in order to prevent the increase in entropy that a more complex system creates. Consequently as resources dwindle, they will be contested over. That's simple darwinism. Yes, there are potential solutions to these issues but they involve science not language. English is already the lingua franca of science.

Trading shares similar traits, it's a zero sum game. While I agree with helping out some investors, not everyone can profit from the forex markets and in my experience, not everyone is even ready to hear the messages that a good FX tutor can share. It's sad, but true.
Best regards Steve
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Jun 12 2014 at 05:19
465 posts
Steve, I need to acknowledge your post and want to comment on it but I got carpel-tunnel writing the following article to Zoom. My eyes just got opened and decided to copy this question and lengthy answer over to the new blog that Mary is setting up for CommonLanguageAppeal.org .

from ZOOM;
 “I am among, probably, the majority of people here not convinced in your idea. By no means to discourage you, but you need some more evidences, some more examples, some more other ideas as to how this new global language will make it better for the Earth or be used within the United Nations. Curious to hear more. ”

I am somewhat embarrassed here, after as much time as I spent with this subject I got to believing that some of the benefits where so obvious that there was not much point in naming them. I didn't stop to realize that to everyone else, the concept wasn't even obvious.

Teens have their own language that parents think strange but the teens like to have the language that binds them to their own. They usually do understand English but only use it when they have to. Each region, country or local areas will still use their native language but everything they publish would also be published in the common language. If anyone is visiting, they will be able to enjoy their experience more as all the road signs, public sector such as hospitals and police are labeled in the native and Earthen language.

This will remove barriers that keep tourists from coming to your attractions. From the travelers point of view, being able to mostly communicate your desires or needs makes or breaks your experience. Why does all the travel places hire English speaking employees? So all the places that can't afford English speaking employees are not worth seeing? Of course they are so with a universal second language every experience has greater dimension.

It isn't so bad for English speakers but what about German speakers? Can any business hire someone to speak every language? Obviously no, so some will have to struggle with not understanding what is meant by “last bus for the night”.

And safety is increased, airplane pilots, ocean going ships and boats, all navigation would shift to the common language so there would never be a missed signal because of a communications failure again. Rescue workers would all be able to communicate clearly for greater efficiency and safety.

Picture this, you are on a short lay over in Brazil on your flight from Uruguay when a guard notices you look a lot like the wanted picture for a gun runner he just saw. You tell him that you don't understand Portuguese but since you can't communicate he can't understand you either. He pulls you aside until someone can be found that speaks your language and Portuguese. Eventually, you are able to explain why you're there and why you are carrying so much money and they let you go. You however missed your plane. All for the ability to communicate effectively.

You could watch news from around the world instead of depending on the spin doctors running the news that you get locally. You could hear both sides of every argument as all news channels could broadcast in their local language and sub-channel the Earthen language for the rest of the world. Movies would be made in English and the common language for the world market. Corporations would save millions on translation duplication and be able to hire quality employees from elsewhere in the world because they all speak the same second language.

The world organizations like the world health organization would be able to release one statement and instantly be understood by all the other counterparts. The United Nations would adopt the Earthen language for all meetings so people everywhere could understand each speaker.

Schools want you to learn a second language, Earthen should be one of them. Almost every one will want to learn it, first because it is new and different, then later because it is accepted by our peers (the in thing to do), then, because we realize that we are at a disadvantage to those who have learned it. We are all at that same disadvantage right now but as the Earthen language is developed and adopted, those disadvantages will disappear.

Scientific research. Contrary to the belief that English is the language of science, the space station has a mixture of English and Russian labels on everything. Do you really think Putin will recommend Russian schools teach English as the world language? It may have been true that English was the language of science for some period of time, but that too is changing.

The worlds population is growing, we are blurring into something that has never been, a culture of cross cultures. We need to establish a single language that can bind us all as humans. One People that all came from the same source. You and I are related, we share a common ancestor somewhere in the past. Yea, it grossed me out when I first realized it too, but there it is.

As the population grows, demands on limited resources will lead to conflicts. If the conflict is with something less than human, I am required to eliminate this non human threat to our security. However, if the conflict is with my brother, I might want to find a suitable compromise. If we speak the same language, we will grow closer. More talk, less killing, who knows, maybe we can evolve.

In fact, choosing to develop and adopt a universal common language is in a way, evolution in itself as we adapt to the internet reality. Ideas can be shared around the globe so problems can be solved by people that you didn't know existed. Two thirds of the surface of this planet is water and we don't know how to use it. Hydroponic gardening uses less water than regular crops but we don't have gardens at sea. If we are all one people on this one planet, we might want to work together to learn about how to equitably utilize its resources. One language would really help this out.

The real evolution for humanity will be to quit idolizing competition and start embracing cooperation. That can only happen when we start talking but also understanding each other.
One planet, one people, one language.

So, would a common language make the world a better place to live? In so many ways, we haven't even begun to comprehend just how much it would benefit us, but the real question is, will it bring peace? Sadly, no it won't, but what it will do is open the door and hang out a welcome sign.

Bob
where research touches lives.
Steve B (stevetrade)
Jun 12 2014 at 09:13
1415 posts
Hi Bob,
I love your sentiment and you are obviously a good soul. Within the next several years many language barriers will have been eradicated by technology anyway.

We'll have Google glass or something similar translating written language for us. There will be blue tooth earpieces linked to our smart phones offering automatic translations of spoken language for us.

Here's one amongst many things currently being developed.

https://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/microsoft-ceo-idUSL1N0OE03T20140528

I've already seen apps for smart phones where you can point your camera at signs and they are put through OCR and then translation software. While still rudimentary, they work. I can also talk into my phone and it will translate for me.

When you look at the technologies that companies like Google invest in and join the dots, you can see exactly what is planned for the future. Remember a lot of these companies have 10 year plans if not further out.

In the UK, nationalised cultures are actually pushing more towards rediscovering their old languages and reviving them. I think language, dialects, colloquialisms etc. are great and good for the diversity of the planet. While I do agree that if the planet was just one nation there would be less problems, that's not something that can be achieved easily as we quite clearly are a planet of different nations and different cultures and that is never going to change.

What I think is more important to bring us together than a common language is a common education that we are fundamentally all one species, facing the same challenges and exposed to the same dangers.

Best regards Steve
11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Jun 14 2014 at 05:53
465 posts
Steve, yes technology can help but consider this, you have met one of those Russian beauties, she cuddles up with you in front of the fire sharing a glass of wine. You look into her eyes, whip out your translator and whisper, 'Oh my, you do look sexy tonight'. Your translator says, 'you look like my sex tonight'. Even if it happens to get it right, there are somethings that should never come between a man and woman, a translator is one of them.

Oh, this is great, I know how to make this cause go viral, Guys' you really could pick up a Russian heart breaker as you could both converse in the common second language. With no language barrier we could conceivably get laid in any country in the world. I wasn't thinking, when I wrote about benefits like ease and safety in traveling or getting the same language labels on the space station. I should have went right to the point to start with... It wouldn't work for me though, put me in the same room with one of those gorgeous Russian girls and I will prove that I can get tongue tied in any language.

But seriously, the biggest argument that we should do this thing is that no computer can show the world that we can pull together and do something to improve our own existence. Machines have their place but also their limitations. We need to do something to pull 'ourselves' together. Never before in history has the world acted unitedly to make the whole planet a better place to live. If we can do that, then we will have educated ourselves with proof 'that we are fundamentally all one species, facing the same challenges and exposed to the same dangers'.

We can't just say that we are all one people, we have to prove it, then it will become true without question. But here's the opposite side of the question, what could it possibly hurt? A common language would only help technology to get assimilated into distant regions and improve upon its capabilities. There are several thousand languages world wide, no one knows how many for sure. Translating each language into every other language is an exercise in futility. It may eventually be accomplished, but at what cost.

A common second language could in theory help save some of the lessor languages from being lost. When communities are engulfed by larger communities, they tend to lose their native language in favor of the larger communities language. Some of the native languages of the American Indian are almost extinct. But if we were all taught a common second language, the smaller communities language could continue to be used locally while communications with the rest of the world would use the common second language.

A universal common language would increase cooperation and communication throughout the world which are two of the main pillars of peace. Add to that a worldwide dating service and who could say no to that?

CommonLanguageAppeal.org
 
where research touches lives.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Jun 18 2014 at 06:36
465 posts
Well, I think we have finally got the CommonLanguageAppeal.org and CommonLanguageAppeal.com set up on its own hosting and we are getting the e-mails transferred, then we will begin the news releases. Let me know what you think of the new webpage. All feedback is helpful.

Bob
where research touches lives.
jotekfinance
Jun 18 2014 at 06:46
138 posts
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Jun 18 2014 at 15:57
465 posts
Thank you jotekfinance, I checked it at 10am New York time and it was back up but the web people may need to know that.

Bob
where research touches lives.
Bob LLewellyn (ForexAssistant)
Jun 21 2014 at 00:02
465 posts
Zoom, et al.

The blog is now up on CommonLanguageAppeal.org and Mary copied the post from here but I forgot to ask Zoom if we could post his name. Zoom please send me a PM advising on what name to use. Right now it just Z.

Anyway, we are going to send out the first press release pretty quick now so wish us luck.

Bob
where research touches lives.
FXWorkz (Silverthorn)
Jun 22 2014 at 08:14
268 posts
Hay Bob. I see Pegasus is coming back nicely after your last tuneup. Great to see.

Still undecided on the common language. Not critical of your efforts just not sure I see the need. I travel internationally a lot and always have. I lived in Africa for a number of years. I've been in Germany, The Netherlands, Austria, Denmark and Italy this month. I speak only English (well the Ausie version of it) and it's very very rare and becoming even rarer that I am not able to communicate with people in other countries using good old English. My communication needs vary from very technical and precise as an Engineering Consultant to general conversation when ordering a meal or making a friend. English is already taught as a second language in a huge number of European and African Countries. And I think that it is slowly being adopted by general consensus without the intervention of anybody. English speakers are less prominent in Asian Countries but still steadily increasing.
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