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FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 21 2014 at 14:28
1608 príspevkov
RSTrading posted:
What do you guys think of the 'counting probability' strategy that they used inspired by the movie '21 or blackjack'?

https://login.mql5.com/en/users/startumbler

The end result shows the 'value' of their strategy... If there were any strategy at all. Of course, other than scamming thousands of subscribers. Which they did 'masterfully', collecting tens of thousands of dollars in subscription fees while crashing their accounts. One of the best designed scams on MyFxBook by the involvement of a scam broker creating artificial account history.

There are so many other much better strategies on MyFxBook running at mainstream brokers. For example: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/togr/caesar-400-eurusd/662462
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theHand
Sep 22 2014 at 06:58
365 príspevkov
@FxMasterGuru

That's simply not true. The people who lost the most here is JP77 (there's 4 of them). They went from having at least $40k income a month to 0 in a day or two. They had every incentive to do as well as they possibly could.

The have at least 3 to 4 year track record in which they built thousand of subscribers through results. What's the problem with a Russian broker ? Metatrader is Russian.

They've simply learned a very public and hard lesson and that is that market conditions change and when they do, they do rapidly.
theHand
Sep 22 2014 at 06:59
365 príspevkov
Your average western hedge fund lasts about 5 years.

There's nothing unusual that happened here that I can see that would indicate they were running a scam.
FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 22 2014 at 07:40
1608 príspevkov
I disagree for multiple reasons:

- JP has has collected MUCH MORE monies in subscription fees than he lost on his own accounts!!!
- Performance was verified through a 'no name' broker.
- JP has appeared on MyFxBook only in 2014, although he had 2-3 years of 'success' history before that, so it is very likely that their 'no name broker' has 'cooked the books' and created a nice account history. (Remember Bernie Madoff...??)
- And finally, isn't it suspicious, that the account has crashed SOON after launching the signal services via MyFxBook and MQL5...?

Even if the above was not correct, they were amatuers and gamblers. Definitely not pros. Even JP has admitted that he was 'gambling' and 'hoping'. If he was a gambler, he should have opened a 'gambling' signal service...
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theHand
Sep 22 2014 at 09:00
365 príspevkov
It's very unlikely they were working with a broker. They're just 4 dudes in Indo.

Wether they're pro or amateurs is irrlevent really to the question which is, was it a scam ?

I don't believe it was. Just 4 dudes that traded for their own accounts and along the way they built a client base for their signals using the singal distribution software that's now so widely and easily available.

Yes, they cocked up, but was it a scam ? Unlikely.
gftcfd
Sep 22 2014 at 09:02
106 príspevkov
theHand
Sep 22 2014 at 09:54
365 príspevkov
Must remember we're talking about 3 parties here, them, the broker and the signal distibutors. Unlikley all of them would be in on a con.

Unlike Madoff who didn't even bother to trade, these guys trades were handled by other parties in the clients accounts. They never took possesion of clients money.
FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 22 2014 at 10:47
1608 príspevkov
Anyway at the minimum they broke their own rules and caused significant damages to their trsuting clients.

Any normal buisness causing damages would at least reimburse the monies received from their clients. Apparently they cannot care less about their clients who paid them. They just spent the monies on flights to HongKong, hotels and restaurants bills. From my money. To earn that money I had to provide service to other people and spend my limited life time. What did I get for my money (i.e. spent lifetime) from them...?? BS. That it is: A HUGE BS.

Even JP has personally admitted being a GAMBLER: 'We put ourselves on hoping instead of counting (read: gambling)'. Woooow!!! Did I just read GAMBLING....??? Yes, he admitted to being a f....ing gambler. And gamblers remain gamblers forever.

I can only quote from my previous post:
'Seeing so many and so serious mistakes, how could anyone trust them again? Just as an analogy: How could an airline let a pilot fly another commercial flight after he had made the same many 'pilot' mistakes as trading mistakes JP did...? Yes, right! There is NO WAY that a disgraced pilot would fly anything else than a KITE. Why? Because people tend to repeat the same mistakes again and again. Which is why HALF of the people released from prison end up in prison again. What about the other half? Probably most of them just get 'smarter' not to be caught again.'
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theHand
Sep 22 2014 at 11:12
365 príspevkov
My parents have their retirement funds with Alan Gray. Alan Gray lost 50% of that in 2008. Not a cent was refunded nor will it ever be. Nor were any commissions repaid. Didn't even get a sorry. And they are one of the best around. I think your view on this is not realistic. That's just not how investing works.

It's funny how everyone wants to share the profit, but no one wants to share the risk. Everyone draws down. JP just took his a little bit harder than normal and he talks to much. But I don't see any problem here. He drew down he must get over it and carry on, make the money back for those clients.
FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 22 2014 at 11:34
1608 príspevkov
Well, it is very sad that SELF-ADMITTING gamblers offer their useless services and take monies as subscription fees.

It is one thing that they caused damages by losing, but they also took fees for nothing. As what did I get for my money for which I had to provide real services for other people and spend my life time. I got nothing! They simply robbed me of my limited life time.

But apparently that is the 'norm' in the Forex world. This 'sector' of 'services' has probably the most scammers and crooks.
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David Wang
F1FOREX007
Sep 22 2014 at 17:57
4 príspevkov
good point!!!
TheCyclist posted:
Wasn't a scam.

They did well for a lot of people for many years. But the volatility went to 7 year lows, it's been nearly impossible to make money lately, EurUsd is having 50 pip ranges for days at a time.

Easy mistake to make if you have 10 or 20 thousand clients screaming for trades. Go too heavy, first volatility that comes along - WHAM...! And there you are contemplating your belly button wondering where the hell your life went. Going to be a long road back for them.

And clearly they got properly ***** by their broker just to add to their troubles.

The one thing I am getting from this is you really don't want to be a signal provider, doesn't sound very pleasant.
David Wang
F1FOREX007
Sep 22 2014 at 17:58
4 príspevkov
Great point, FxMasterGuru! But JohnPaul is still allowing those poor comments on his discussion. it might just be a draw-down at this moment for JP77. Anyway, you really do sounds like a Pro FX trader, you really know a lot of insight of a lot of Forex stuffs. I am wondering if you have some track record of your trading? I am really eager to follow you on myFXbook
FxMasterGuru posted:
@TheCyclist

Even if it were not a scam, you are just too nice with "JohnPaul" (which if probably not his real name either).

I am quoting a part of JP's e-mail. It sounds like written by a noob trader after blowing his first account:

"Here are some rules that we broke :

    Didn't use stop loss
    Hold position(s) for too long
    Believing/loving too much to one theory (in this case – chart pattern)
    Exceed our loss tolerance level
    More than one average position in one pair
    Force ourselves to trade during bad markets
    Put ourselves on hoping instead of counting (read: gambling)"

Wow!!! Some interesting words here: "NO STOP LOSS", "HOPING", "GAMBLING"... Wooooow!!! How can a "pro" trader or traders, managing thousands of accounts can make SOOO MANY mistakes AT ONCE. Even ONE of those mistakes could be lethal.

Seeing so many and so serious mistakes, how could anyone trust them again? Just as an analogy: How could an airline let a pilot fly another commercial flight after he had made the same many "pilot" mistakes as trading mistakes JP did...? Yes, right! There is NO WAY that pilot would fly anything else than a KITE. Why? Because people tend to repeat the same mistakes again and again. Which is why HALF of the people released from prison end up in prison again. What about the other half? Probably most of them just get "smarter" not to be caught again.

In summary: Even if JP showed another account with 5 years straight profit, I would not trust even a demo account on him. But probably we shall see him soon with another "fantastic" strategy (possibly not as "JohnPaul", but "ThomasMatthew" or whichever Biblical name he chooses).

Or, he and his team may just find a scam broker which will create a nice (and believable) 3-year balance history for them ("VERIFIED" by MYFXBOOK) and they can start again even within a month! They just need to "survive" a few months and collect up to 100k in subscription fees and broker commissions.
FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 22 2014 at 19:12
1608 príspevkov
@F1FOREX007

Thanks, David! Pros don't 'show off' on MyFxBook. You will not find any 'Pro trader' diplaying performance pages. They keep it for themselves for statistical purposes. Only. But I will PM you the private link of one of my live accounts I am actively trading every day.

Anyway I am done with this 'JP stuff'. The only reason I visit MyFxBook blogs is to warn newbies about scammers, gamblers and irresponsible 'Wannabees'.
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theHand
Sep 23 2014 at 06:56
365 príspevkov
Pro traders display all the time, it's called a monthly statement and kind of compulsory in the investment industry.
theHand
Sep 23 2014 at 06:58
365 príspevkov
An I just want to point, there's folks I know personally on this board, as in I have beers with them when I'm in Asia, that's been making a living of Fx trading for over a decade. Before Metatrader was even a thing. One in particular had his own fund for a few years.

So if you think there's just a bunch of losers here, I have news for you mate. There's some serious traders lurking around the place.
FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 23 2014 at 08:01
1608 príspevkov
theHand posted:
Pro traders display all the time, it's called a monthly statement and kind of compulsory in the investment industry.

I would like to quote myself: 'Pros don't 'show off' on MyFxBook.' -- The emphasis is 'on MyFxBook'...

Also there are many Pro traders who trade for themselves and private clients. They are not obliged to DISPLAY anything to the public. They MAY SEND reports to their private clients.
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FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 23 2014 at 08:59
1608 príspevkov
theHand posted:
An I just want to point, there's folks I know personally on this board, as in I have beers with them when I'm in Asia, that's been making a living of Fx trading for over a decade. Before Metatrader was even a thing. One in particular had his own fund for a few years.

So if you think there's just a bunch of losers here, I have news for you mate. There's some serious traders lurking around the place.

Do they display (i.e. 'show off') their excellent performances on MyFxBook...??

Yeah, probably not...
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theHand
Sep 23 2014 at 10:06
365 príspevkov
I suppose this is the point where I have to choose if I get into an argument about what pro's do and don't do and point out that you don't speak for any pro's, you only speak for yourself.

I mean it's not like a handle like master guru is subtle really is it ? Not what the 'pro's' would do, eh ?

And I suppose I can google around and find some jurisdictions where statements are mandatory.

Or I can crack a beer, go wash my car and pack my bags.

Guess I'll do the latter...
theHand
Sep 23 2014 at 10:10
365 príspevkov
No one I know is a signal seller or fund manager. All the guys I know value their time more then the income. Clients take time. So they don't brag no, but I don't think they'll have any problem to display publicly if it was in their interest.

FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Sep 23 2014 at 10:43
1608 príspevkov
theHand posted:
No one I know is a signal seller or fund manager. All the guys I know value their time more then the income. Clients take time. So they don't brag no, but I don't think they'll have any problem to display publicly if it was in their interest.


Yes, you are correct. It is NOT in the interest of any 'pro' (ie. someone who makes his/her living mainly from trading) to display his performance on MyFxBook. Pro traders find their wealthy clients through other channels. That's what I meant.

So getting back to JP for a last turn. In case they were as successful as they claimed (i.e. before the epic collapes), hedge funds would have already hired them - with their strategy - a long time ago. IF THEY WERE as good as their claimed results. But for some reason investments fund did not like the 3 years history of 'phenomenal' results... Why... Maybe because the numbers were 'cooked'.

So what was left for JP as an 'intelligent' business decision is selling signals for $20.00 per month. Actually not a bad alternative when having 1000 subsribers each paying 20$ per month...
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