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Intraday Trading is gambling

FxMasterGuru (FxMasterGuru)
Aug 21 2016 at 14:37
1608 príspevkov
You are right, but the given examples are not the best.

1. I can give you a strategy with 298 wins from 300 trades, but still, it would be a loser strategy.

2. Pro poker players don't win 298 out 300 hands, but still many of them are millionaires...

In other words: Not an extremely high Win : Loss ratio is the main hallmark of a profitable strategy.

Please click "Vouch" if you liked my post. If not, just put me on your Blocked list. :o)
jamie Richardson (yique)
Aug 22 2016 at 05:06
4 príspevkov
I agree, a very high win rate does not necessarily mean a winning strategy. 1 losing trade out of 300 can blow your account if not managed properly. But 298 winners out of 300 does prove that it's no roll of the dice, close your eyes & hope for the best ! Even if your a genius mathematician in a casino counting all the outcomes on a poker or roulette table to gauge your bets.

vontogr (togr)
Aug 22 2016 at 05:09
4862 príspevkov
yique posted:
FxMasterGuru posted:
Intraday trading is 'gambling' only for those who don't know how to do it right.

It is as much 'gambling' as playing poker is 'gambling' for professional poker players...

BTW, I concur with previous statements of HolyGrail, Tomas (vontogr) and Elena.


I have won 298 trades out of 300. If you can win that many roullete of poker games in a row then yes fx trading is gambling !


Once I had strategy that makes 100% wins. After making like 200% it wipes account.
100% wins does not matter. Risk/reward does.

Muppet Trader (MuppetTrader)
Sep 07 2016 at 06:40
5 príspevkov
I have been trading the markets for ages. The excitement is always in the shorter timeframes.. I remember I started looking at the 15 minutes, then the 5 and then the 1 minute timeframe. The problem is that there are massive highs and lows if you see the market going up when you've bought and massive lows when you sell.. then you realise that it's just the 1 minute chart and you got all excited by a 10 pip movement!

I personally found it far too stressful and it's far too addictive. It's like a drug and draws you in. There's too much noise in the lower timeframes for it to work for me and I'm sure there are people who are deeply successful trading these timeframes but it's not for me.

Most of my trading is now the Daily timeframes and if I fancy a bit of excitement, it's the 1 hour charts I look at. I'm much more successful with my trading now, it's relatively stress free and in fact, it's rather boring! So for me, boring trading = profitable trading.


mlawson71
Sep 10 2016 at 09:04
1487 príspevkov
Not only is there too much noise on the lower time frames, but they are less reliable when it comes to the signals you see on them. I prefer the 4-hour and daily time frames myself.

topcrossfx
Sep 11 2016 at 11:45
2 príspevkov
I don't think it matters whether you're day trading or swing trading as long as you understand your trading system well. I personally have spent a great deal of time to master my day trading strategy. It took me a while to be able execute my trades well and consistently profitable.

JayTeeFX
Sep 14 2016 at 07:29
18 príspevkov
Serenity271 posted:
togr posted:
prakash104 posted:
Major drawback in intraday trading is watching 5 or 15 minute or 30 minute charts all day.
This will make you sick and your eyes will be under severe pain.You will need a doctor because now you are addicted to intraday trading.


Well you need to see from another point of view.
Trading is about forecast future. You need to estimate if pair move up or down.
It is like weather forecast. They could do it for today or perhaps tomorrow. For a week or month? It does not work:)
So IMHO trying to forecast future for very close time has better success than for long term.


It's the other way around. Look at forecasts from major banks. The don't have a forecast for the next 15 minutes or the next day. For them it's about what will happen in the next few months or years.
'

I agree with Togr here - majority of the long term bank calls I see end up being wrong. Their trick is you forget their calls after a while. Predicting over shorter time frames is often an easier task. But stop placement can be tricky and a real killer.

olivia_jones
Sep 16 2016 at 06:42
24 príspevkov
Well, Intra-day trading is a nerve racking job mostly suited to the well discipline traders with whole length knowledge of current market environment and who are firm enough to take a high degree of risk. Constant attention is needed to go through the 5 or 15 minutes charts and fix the positions accordingly. Intra-day trading demands active trade which shoots up the trading cost as well. For a newbie trader, intra-day is like taking a shot in the dark which often ends up in losses. An intraday trader needs to be highly disciplined with strict stop losses and profit targets as intraday volatility can easily cause profits to turn negative in matter of few minutes.

Andreadylon1
Sep 19 2016 at 13:40
1 príspevkov
Yes intraday trading is gambling. It is all about guessing the trend of market over a 15 or 30 minutes chart and start trading. If the day is in your favor then you will be considered lucky as you make some profit in the range bound. But be prepared for loss too when you face range breaks. Undoubtedly you can protect yourself by stop loss, but we never know where market will move. Also this trading is against fundamentals most of the time which makes it less trustworthy.

kieran (snapdragon1970)
Sep 20 2016 at 12:12
1945 príspevkov
Serenity271 posted:
togr posted:
Serenity271 posted:
togr posted:
prakash104 posted:
Major drawback in intraday trading is watching 5 or 15 minute or 30 minute charts all day.
This will make you sick and your eyes will be under severe pain.You will need a doctor because now you are addicted to intraday trading.


Well you need to see from another point of view.
Trading is about forecast future. You need to estimate if pair move up or down.
It is like weather forecast. They could do it for today or perhaps tomorrow. For a week or month? It does not work:)
So IMHO trying to forecast future for very close time has better success than for long term.


It's the other way around. Look at forecasts from major banks. The don't have a forecast for the next 15 minutes or the next day. For them it's about what will happen in the next few months or years.


I did look at forecast of big bank. They were wrong. For example all of them did forecast EURUSD will go to parity by end of 2015. It did not happen.


They can't be right all the time.

Depends on what side of the trade they are on.

"They mistook leverage with genius".
JayTeeFX
Sep 21 2016 at 06:28
18 príspevkov
Gambling has a negative edge by definition. If you trade with > 33% accuracy and 2R you have an edge and it can't be considered gambling.

Mario (SwingFish)
Oct 05 2016 at 06:43
28 príspevkov
once you place a order, you DO NOT KNOW the outcome!!

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as 'the stakes') on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize. The outcome of the wager is often immediate, such as a single roll of dice or a spin of a roulette wheel, but longer time frames are also common, allowing wagers on the outcome of a future sports contest or even an entire sports season.


that's for definition!

everyone state they NOT gamble but trade, has just a problem admitting it.

facing the truth will be a large step in the profitable direction.

Professional Canned-Tuna Eater
JayTeeFX
Oct 06 2016 at 06:26
18 príspevkov
Regardless, the reality of it is all gambling has a negative edge - if you can point me to a game that doesn't would be much appreciated!

Good trading doesn't - a good trader has an edge over the house and can only trade at ECN brokers - market makers ban them quick. This is why I trade with Vantage FX - they always pay me my winnings!

PS After typing that though you could be right - doesn't sound too dissimilar from good poker/blackjack players being banned/dragged out the back of the casino and beaten hahaha

But yeah trading is different in that that the trader sets his own odds/return on the bet - not aware of any traditional gambling games where that is possible.

Rustan mallari (tankbeta)
Oct 06 2016 at 08:27
171 príspevkov
its gambling if you dont know what youre doing. isn't it?

Plan your trades and trade your plans.
SKFX
Oct 09 2016 at 07:16
3 príspevkov
Yes its gambling if you have no idea what your doing. IF you click a button and wait for it go to in your favor. You have to look at on higher timeframes to see if its bullish or bearish, and what is it reaching for (swing highs, lows, major price levels), and trade based of that. Forex is not random and very time sensitive.

Matt (BluePanther)
Oct 10 2016 at 03:15
1355 príspevkov
nullx8 posted:
once you place a order, you DO NOT KNOW the outcome!!

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as 'the stakes') on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize. The outcome of the wager is often immediate, such as a single roll of dice or a spin of a roulette wheel, but longer time frames are also common, allowing wagers on the outcome of a future sports contest or even an entire sports season.


that's for definition!

everyone state they NOT gamble but trade, has just a problem admitting it.

facing the truth will be a large step in the profitable direction.


Agreed. Well said.

SKFX posted:
Yes its gambling if you have no idea what your doing. IF you click a button and wait for it go to in your favor. You have to look at on higher timeframes to see if its bullish or bearish, and what is it reaching for (swing highs, lows, major price levels), and trade based of that. Forex is not random and very time sensitive.


Forex is certainly not definite. Then again, nothing in life is definite - everything in life is a gamble (risk) when you think about it. 'In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.' - Benjamin Franklin

vontogr (togr)
Oct 10 2016 at 16:19
4862 príspevkov
It is not gambling when you limit risk to acceptable level.

SaltyWaters
Oct 10 2016 at 18:42
247 príspevkov
Let's take 'Drinking' as an example. We have the 'casual drinker' and the 'alcoholic'. The difference between them are: The casual drinker drinks with moderation and he only drinks the amount he sets acceptable by his standards. The alcoholic is unable to control himself and drinks until he passes out - he's unable to control himself and the appetite for drinking. The casual drinker doesn't do that but everyday he stops at the bar and drinks a beer or two. Pay attention both are drinking.
Let's look into 'Gambling'. There's the guy who receives his paycheck and bets all his money on the casino, lottery tickets, sports bets, stock market, forex, etc. he is the alcoholic of the gamblers. Then there's the sophisticated guy who calls himself a trader and only bets a set amount of his money on the above choices - he says he analyzes the market and he knows what he's doing, though he admits nobody can predict the market 100% and be always right, so sometimes he loses. Wait a minute did I hear it right!? So, what is he doing different from the alcoholic gambler? Isn't he putting his money on an uncertainty? Alright, he's limiting is risk to an acceptable amount but he is still betting his money on something he has no control over and not sure of the outcome and he keeps betting after he loses, well, not right away, he waits a day or two before going back because he knows how to control himself, he is a professional (so he says) but he still goes back for more and sometimes wins, sometimes loses. It seems to me both of them are gambling. What is an acceptable risk: 10 % of $1000 dollars is $100 and 10% of $100000 is $10000 . How much can you afford to drink is up to you. What you want to call it is up to you too, but keep in mind the matter of fact is, we are all in the same boat. The way you do it or call it may not change a thing other than how much money you gonna end up with and this is why we are all here. Because of the money!

vontogr (togr)
Oct 10 2016 at 20:14
4862 príspevkov
SaltyWaters posted:
Let's take 'Drinking' as an example. We have the 'casual drinker' and the 'alcoholic'. The difference between them are: The casual drinker drinks with moderation and he only drinks the amount he sets acceptable by his standards. The alcoholic is unable to control himself and drinks until he passes out - he's unable to control himself and the appetite for drinking. The casual drinker doesn't do that but everyday he stops at the bar and drinks a beer or two. Pay attention both are drinking.
Let's look into 'Gambling'. There's the guy who receives his paycheck and bets all his money on the casino, lottery tickets, sports bets, stock market, forex, etc. he is the alcoholic of the gamblers. Then there's the sophisticated guy who calls himself a trader and only bets a set amount of his money on the above choices - he says he analyzes the market and he knows what he's doing, though he admits nobody can predict the market 100% and be always right, so sometimes he loses. Wait a minute did I hear it right!? So, what is he doing different from the alcoholic gambler? Isn't he putting his money on an uncertainty? Alright, he's limiting is risk to an acceptable amount but he is still betting his money on something he has no control over and not sure of the outcome and he keeps betting after he loses, well, not right away, he waits a day or two before going back because he knows how to control himself, he is a professional (so he says) but he still goes back for more and sometimes wins, sometimes loses. It seems to me both of them are gambling. What is an acceptable risk: 10 % of $1000 dollars is $100 and 10% of $100000 is $10000 . How much can you afford to drink is up to you. What you want to call it is up to you too, but keep in mind the matter of fact is, we are all in the same boat. The way you do it or call it may not change a thing other than how much money you gonna end up with and this is why we are all here. Because of the money!


well let me extend the point of view of mine.

Of course you need to make profit AND trade with acceptable risk.
Trading without profit (as 90% guys here) just for fun or being addict makes no sense of course!

Matt (BluePanther)
Oct 11 2016 at 03:04
1355 príspevkov
SaltyWaters posted:
...It seems to me both of them are gambling... What you want to call it is up to you too, but keep in mind the matter of fact is, we are all in the same boat. The way you do it or call it may not change a thing other than how much money you gonna end up with and this is why we are all here. Because of the money!


Ain't that true: https://dailypriceaction.com/articles/is-forex-trading-gambling

Debate over: Gambling is gambling is gambling.

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